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Thread: What do you think of this training?

  1. #11
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    She should be getting as much exercise as she wants. Young dogs especially have a lot of energy. How much time is she spending in the crate overall? I have only crated young dogs overnight or temporarily while going out for an hour or two. I am lucky enough to be self-employed and keep them with me all day in the office and at home when I am there. We have a large fenced yard that they can run around in whenever they want when we are home - in and out through a doggie door, but are walked 2-3x during the day. Young dogs need more exercise and also VERY IMPORTANT is they need something to chew on that keeps them busy as well. My Fiona who is between 2-3 y.o. really needs to chew. I do buy rawhides, but I have a Boxer who inhales them and literally just eats anything he can chew up, so I have to be careful what I give her does not end of being something he can get hold of and ends up getting caught in his intestines.

    I do not give my dogs beef bones.... I know, I feel really bad about it, but the worst broken teeth I have had with my dogs through the years has been by giving them beef bones. The jaw strength these dogs have can break their teeth off on beef bones... and they have - one broke a large front canine tooth on a bone and one cracked a back tooth. They love them so much.... so I feel really bad about it... Fiona has the most strength I've ever seen in any of my Rotties. I've been giving her rubber rings that are very thick and durable, (they are meant to be tug of war rings) and I'm sure the manufacturer didn't intend for them to be chewed into bits, but that's exactly what she does with them. She loves them and she doesn't eat them, she spits them out, but even if she did, they say on the packaging nontoxic. I've given her some other types of rubbery chews that she can chew up too. It helps to keep them busy, exercise helps and giving them something to chew on. All dogs are fascinated with squeaky toys, but to date I have never found a squeaky toy that can last more than 15 minutes with one of mine (with the exception of this calendar toy I found that had a different squeak for every day of the month...it took Fiona a few days to kill all of the squeeks of the month on that one and she had a great time doing it... wish I could find another...

    Speaking of not knowing her own strength... Fiona got a bath this weekend and when I was attempting to dry her off and while shaking her head around in the process, she hit me in the arm with her tooth and gave me a good sized gouge...the girl just doesn't know how strong she is! ...or I am getting very weak and thin skinned... ugh... hate to think it's me, of course not, it couldn't be me!
    Last edited by Steph King; 08-29-2016 at 07:06 PM.
    Sheera'smom and ROttmann like this.

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  3. #12
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    Ditto to the last two responses. Our Max is cut almost from the same mold. He is is highly prey driven, alpha, headstrong and hardheaded. It's his way or the highway or it's been that way from the day he came home as a puppy. We tried FOREVER with positive reinforcement. All that got out of him was zip. My husband finally hired an old school trainer that had trained dogs in the military. It took many lessons with this guy. Max was SO hard, he even had to be hung from the ground off his front legs with the lead chock chain to get his attention. A time or two. Got down to a shock collar for him when we trained in the park with little kids running in the distance with a bright glowing ball that he wanted. That's all he saw all he wanted. No command was gonna change his mind. Until the shock collar turned almost all the way up and then he obeyed commands. Hard head and stubborn!

    It hurt me to a see that happen to him. It did. But I'd rather see that than to see kids attacked for their ball. Since then my husband has been diligent to train him old school. And I handle him the same way in the house. Neither of us EVER let him forget who the masters and pack leaders are in this house. And he's still a hardhead. But we love him to death and he's really very loving and a softy now but that hardheadness will always be there lurking I think.

    But...it takes that firm hand that never gives in to them, never an inch with these tuff ones. I've had several rotties and I've never had a tuff nut like him before. Oh, and did I mention how extremely smart he is. His probably the smartest one we've ever owned and LOVES to work. That's helping him too. My husband is training him in agility, bite work. Last summer he took swimming classes. I think maybe it might help this type of dog to work at something and to be learning. Thats my thoughts on it anyway. Good luck to you!

    Anyway, I hope any of this helps you. I hope you don't give up. Get hard with her, startle her. Give her what for when she needs it and of course praise her when she does good because rotaries nthrive on praise. I know my Max does.

  4. #13
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    We had a dog like your Max many years ago (our second Rottie, got him as a puppy) Haus. And we had a few battles with him for dominance in his early years, including hanging him up and pinning him against a wall for 10-15 seconds. Yes, there are Rotts like that and they need extreme treatment for extreme reactions. We haven't had one that dominant since, (although Fiona came close) but they are out there and no one should be ashamed of dealing with it in a manner that handles the problematic areas. However, this type of Rott is not common (at least from what I've seen - he was the only one out of the 9 we have had who was that dominant) so for anyone reading this, do not be quick to rush to judgment that your dog is this horribly problematic and requires this drastic solution. And most importantly, NEVER NEVER NEVER challenge and pin a Rottie who hasn't earned your trust or doesn't trust you. If a dog like that is up for adoption I would not take them (I only adopt now.) Unsocialization is hard, but trust is harder to come about with Rotties that are headstrong and you would be asking for trouble... if it was a just one on one adoption on that kind of dog, we could do it, but not with our other dogs, that adds too much stress and competition to the mix, they can fight and the dogs who have been your dogs for years can see this over-dominant dog as a threat to you and come in to "protect you." (We learned that the hard way with Fiona last year. Moqui got into immediate scrapes with her at first thinking he was protecting us and for the first few months he would come in and try to stand in between us because he was worried that she would hurt us. Fiona was not a mean dog, just unsocialized, headstrong and not used to being handled, and certainly not used to being told what to do by a strange dog!) Also, that technique of pinning or hanging is sort of a final step to get an over-dominant dog's attention and respect, not just every dog, or every Rottie. Most do not need this, just the dogs who think they should be the boss over every living creature. That's what Haus was, and it is imperative in controlling a dog to be their boss and pack leader. Also, if you are adopting a full grown dog, you must bring a dog along slowly, gain trust, work with them, get confidence in them and let them get confident in you before asking for more...it's a gradual process with an adopted dog. You don't take them in and expect them to love and obey you immediately.

    Max was lucky to get you, Haus was lucky to get us... Fiona lucked out too... not sure many people could have handled her, she was so squirrely in the beginning. I can't even think about the other Rotties out there that might end up in horrible situations without the proper training, socialization and love who have these character traits.

    This is another reason to be concerned if you are getting a Rott as a puppy, you need to make sure you are going to a breeder who is breeding for temperament as well as healthy/proper conformation etc. We got Haus from a backyard breeder, the father had a very dominant attitude (and little to no training) and the female had poor conformation... (Haus had to have his back leg ligaments reattached when he was 7 or 8) live and learn... I'm so glad Rotties are not being as overbred as they once were. I liked it better when no one knew what the breed was back in the 80s.

    Still, Haus had personality plus. He was so much fun, watched TV, chased lights, was a blast to have fun with and he was very loving to us, but when he didn't like something or someone he was frightening looking.... he had these open mouthed snarls that would put off anyone else but us... we had gotten used to them (sad but true, there was no changing his overt reactions). He never bit us either... never bit anyone his whole life, but boy, did he ever look like he wanted to when he was annoyed.... not a good thing. Also he thought it was his job in life to dominate every single dog he met. He never played with other dogs. He would walk up to every single dog he met and try to mount them in domination. (He was fixed.) So... we never let him meet strange dogs, after we learned this hard truth about him.

    On the other hand, Fiona has a good temperament under that bravado, it was just she was never handled for the first year or so of her life, just kept in a pen for breeding. She has a jagged cut on her tongue, and I sometimes wonder if that is why she wasn't sold as a puppy.... and why the breeder kept her to breed and then completely ignored her in a pen with multiple dogs in it (judging from her personality when we got her)... she is a dog who thought she had to fight for everything she had with other dogs and the first time she ended up in the pound the breeder gave the pound the recommendation to PTS. So did the first adoptive owners... A rescue group got her and we got her from them. Boy, we didn't know what we were getting into! (Well, we kind of did, because she wouldn't let herself be petted without snapping when we met her - fell in love with her anyway!) She's great now, 15 months later, very loving, attentive, obedient, very respectful of the Chi and somewhat respectful of the Rott mix (she still occasionally likes to dominate him) and the only rough edges she has is she still wants to go after trucks as we drive down the freeway and when the UPS truck pulls up to the office she goes ballistic. We are working on that. We never had to hang her up, it was never like that with her. She was just unsocialized to the point of not knowing what was good (petting and patting - she initially thought patting was being punished) and what was not (bullying and biting the other family dog members).... tough one, that girl... but worth the work. But I digress, I think the point is that even a dog that is tough is not necessarily one in need of the hanging up technique... it's a training technique that should only be used on extremely hard headed, belligerent dogs who do not accept your will any other way... and it's not a question of being mean or demanding, it's a question of keeping something bad from happening if your dog absolutely needs to listen to you. There are instances where this is critical - just like with Max and the children with the ball and Fiona and the person at our front screen door she popped open... and if you have a Rottie or any large dog, it is your issue of personal responsibility and safety to be able to control them at all times, preferably by solely voice, but whatever route this takes you to get that respect and attention, it is very necessary. It is the crap owners that choose to let their dogs run wild and do horrible things that makes it difficult for those of us who are responsible owners to coexist in society. It is the crap owners that cause insurance companies to rethink their coverage of houses with certain breeds, that causes some cities to ban certain breeds, that causes misconceptions and ugliness. So it goes..
    Last edited by Steph King; 10-30-2016 at 08:27 PM.
    Sheera'smom likes this.

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