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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Agis is a weird mix of confident and nervous. Strange guy approaching me late at night - stand forward and watch, hold your ground, no audible reaction.

When we go to the store in our complex, we bring him and tie him up outside - it's off of a driveway, not off of a street, he's out of view. It's always been fine, even with other people waiting outside (they only let one customer in at a time with COVID).

This week I did this - the store's door is open, I didn't hear a thing. I came out, undid him, and walked by a lady who was a bit back and standing waiting. He half-lunged, half-growled at her - very half-hearted, and she said 'That thing went after me twice'.

I don't doubt he did, why would she make that up. I don't know if she approached him somehow and he didn't like it - either through her own ineptitude or because he was nervous being on his own (but the scenario has played out fine for ages now). For him to go after her without enough barking for me to hear, she must've approached him. I never approach the dogs tied outside, except for TinTin, one of our favourite dogs who loves us too - but we're buds.

Either way, we can't guarantee how he'll behave when we're not watching him, and we can't control what people will do when we're not there to step in...so no more taking to the store.

I was really upset. When she said to me he'd gone after her, I was so shocked at even what he did when I was there - because he generally likes people or at the least is neutral with them (outside, anyhow) - that I just said 'Okay' and then she walked into the store (without waiting for a response).

In other news, he graduated virtual obedience II last night.
 

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I'm always a bit wary of taking the words people use at face value. I realise you won't have interrogated the woman but what does "went after me" mean? - if there was no barking and Agis was tied up it feels this might not have been bouncing off the end of the leash in an "attack" and could have been a warning growl or something?

I don't think I would trust other people enough to leave my dog unattended to be honest. Have left him in the car within view of a shop but if I was on foot and alone I'd probably just come back myself later.
 

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Agis is a weird mix of confident and nervous. Strange guy approaching me late at night - stand forward and watch, hold your ground, no audible reaction.

When we go to the store in our complex, we bring him and tie him up outside - it's off of a driveway, not off of a street, he's out of view. It's always been fine, even with other people waiting outside (they only let one customer in at a time with COVID).

This week I did this - the store's door is open, I didn't hear a thing. I came out, undid him, and walked by a lady who was a bit back and standing waiting. He half-lunged, half-growled at her - very half-hearted, and she said 'That thing went after me twice'.

I don't doubt he did, why would she make that up. I don't know if she approached him somehow and he didn't like it - either through her own ineptitude or because he was nervous being on his own (but the scenario has played out fine for ages now). For him to go after her without enough barking for me to hear, she must've approached him. I never approach the dogs tied outside, except for TinTin, one of our favourite dogs who loves us too - but we're buds.

Either way, we can't guarantee how he'll behave when we're not watching him, and we can't control what people will do when we're not there to step in...so no more taking to the store.

I was really upset. When she said to me he'd gone after her, I was so shocked at even what he did when I was there - because he generally likes people or at the least is neutral with them (outside, anyhow) - that I just said 'Okay' and then she walked into the store (without waiting for a response).

In other news, he graduated virtual obedience II last night.
Congrats on the obedience, great that you are still training him and enrolling him im courses while all this is going on some others would take the easy route and wouldnt bother. Agree with Camy, its hard to know exactly what went on and although you might be concerned, no physical harm was done. Others will have better info than me, but Rotties as a breed can be very territorial and even if one is trained very well, in my experience dont do well on their own with strangers approaching them. At best they will tolerate them. Without knowing Agis personally, its hard to say of he was being territorial/nerves or a bit of both or simply more defensive as you wernt there. Probably a good decision not to leave him again. (Not knocking you, as ive done the same myself in the past) also im not sure of his exact age, but he seems to be at the age where he is starting to mature and rotties can start becomming a bit "bulshy" or start to throw their weight around a bit at around 16months to 2.5years approx especially intact males imo. Not saying thats it and you have him trained very well, just worth noting. Ive had rotts that have been more than fine with absolutley everything and with huge amounts of training and at a certain age, things can suddenly change. We just have to understand the breed, adapt and guide. Nothing happened anyway and ive hit loads of issues with my dogs over the years. Its all part of learning and enjoying the ride:) (y)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks @Camy and @Dj86 - you guys are right. It just surprised me. But he's...21 months I believe. So he is maturing, for sure, and coming into his own. Though, he's neutered, and because we got him from a shelter, they neutered him shockingly young. Disgusts me. Got Neb from a rescue that didn't neuter him (mind you he was 6 weeks) and because they never followed up I didn't honour my 'neuter at 6 months' contract and waited til 18 months. We adopted Agis at 13.5 weeks and best guess from his incision and how it was healing, neutered around 11-12 weeks. Poor guy :(

I do think it's best to not bring him. This is the only shop I WAS comfortable leaving him outside (and it's 100m away from our building, so no driving...people here are weird about leaving dogs in cars, we don't do it when it's hot obviously, but I still worry - even in the winter, I think some people would be like 'THEY'RE COLD' (only our beagle would get cold, and even he's fine), but my husband will walk down to the coffee shop and tie the dogs up outside while he pops in...I have asked him not to do that, as I worry about dognapping and it's a far more public area. He does it anyways.

My husband was like 'We can still take him to the store, that woman was an idiot. I was like, regardless of what she did when I wasn't there, he definitely reacted when I was. And what if someone gets closer or it's a kid? I think he got it (I hope) and won't take Agis places like that now.

Dj, I do think Agis is becoming more territorial now. I do see that.

It's funny. I've tried to say to my husband stuff about him maturing and being a rottie and how we should change how we handle him and take him places. But I totally didn't think of it myself with the shop! Sigh.
 

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Thanks @Camy and @Dj86 - you guys are right. It just surprised me. But he's...21 months I believe. So he is maturing, for sure, and coming into his own. Though, he's neutered, and because we got him from a shelter, they neutered him shockingly young. Disgusts me. Got Neb from a rescue that didn't neuter him (mind you he was 6 weeks) and because they never followed up I didn't honour my 'neuter at 6 months' contract and waited til 18 months. We adopted Agis at 13.5 weeks and best guess from his incision and how it was healing, neutered around 11-12 weeks. Poor guy :(

I do think it's best to not bring him. This is the only shop I WAS comfortable leaving him outside (and it's 100m away from our building, so no driving...people here are weird about leaving dogs in cars, we don't do it when it's hot obviously, but I still worry - even in the winter, I think some people would be like 'THEY'RE COLD' (only our beagle would get cold, and even he's fine), but my husband will walk down to the coffee shop and tie the dogs up outside while he pops in...I have asked him not to do that, as I worry about dognapping and it's a far more public area. He does it anyways.

My husband was like 'We can still take him to the store, that woman was an idiot. I was like, regardless of what she did when I wasn't there, he definitely reacted when I was. And what if someone gets closer or it's a kid? I think he got it (I hope) and won't take Agis places like that now.

Dj, I do think Agis is becoming more territorial now. I do see that.

It's funny. I've tried to say to my husband stuff about him maturing and being a rottie and how we should change how we handle him and take him places. But I totally didn't think of it myself with the shop! Sigh.
Not your fault at all, its all part of learning. Its great to take im all places. I take mine everywhere i possibly can, sometimes to my other halfs dissapointment:LOL:People to be fair shouldnt approach any dog tied up alone regardless. Most times especailly large breeds/rotties get a very ufair rap. Ive learnt over the years to just adapt as nobodys a super hero that can change everyones behaviour and understanding/education of the breed unfortunately. Ralph although he goes everywhere with me in all situations meeting and greeting, is the dog im most careful with. Again i just dont want to give someone an excuse. That being said all dogs are different and every area/country is, so you do whats best for you, as Agis is in great hands! Dont stop completley doing what your doing but find that balance:)

Regarding the neutering i agree totally thats ridiculously wrong. There should be guidlines on this, especially for large breeds. My Bordeaux Leo RIP was a rescue and was neutered at 10months. This i am certain led to both his cruciate ligements rupturing and his eventual hip dysplasia. His back end lacked muscle imo and god knows what the neutering done to his growing plates and joints
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ugh, my husband is taking Agis out (he asked to go) and said 'I'll go to the store too'. So we just got into a 'heated discussion' about that. I feel like he doesn't take it seriously.

Agis is only 52lbs (but holy is he strong), he basically looks like a mini Rottie.

Thanks for the support :) My husband is weird, he's lived with a German Shepherd I did threat training with, he took her seriously - yet Agis he doesn't see. It's so frustrating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
My husband came back in after being gone for longer than a pee break.

He said, I get it about the store, but Agis should learn to be alone.

ANYWAYS, for now we're okay.

He took him and practiced sit stays and down stays and recall (not a long session, but that's alright) - he doesn't train Agis and doesn't generally do a lot with him when he has him - so I was glad to see that. He told me he'd get more involved in working Agis but he doesn't know how to do it a lot so I said I'd give him pointers.

I'm pleased about that.
 

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I think it's a good idea not to leave any dog tied up outside of a store...especially at this time...with dogs being stolen (shortage of dogs in Ontario right now), and people that would like to sue you even if the dog scratches someone with it's nails.
I don't think Agis did anything wrong... He's let you know that he should not be left alone tied...so you better listen.
Congratulations on completing Virtual Obedience II:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
That's why I worry about leaving the dogs out on Bloor (main road cutting east-west across central Toronto). That and once at our local we heard someone talking about beastiality and I was like 'Holy heck' (okay that's not what I thought, but you get the idea).

You're right though. I tried to explain to Toby, if Agis gets someone at all, even if they should've stayed away, he'll/we'll be at fault.

And, I don't want him learning self-reinforcing behaviour about how to make people go away. If that makes sense.

Thanks. He spent the entire last class when he wasn't being worked barking. Oi. He gets REALLY excited doing training.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I laughed.

Just went to the store in our complex to pick up some bread (heaven forbid I use our bread machine). On my own, no dog.

There was a lady waiting outside as someone was already in the store (the whole COVID thing, one household at a time). She had a six-month old puppy with her that must've weighed 10lbs. It barked at me, she apologized, I said, I've got three, not a problem and we chatted. Then the other people came out so the owner tied up her dog and went in the store.

I sat 3 metres away from the puppy, and it barked and lunged at me before calming down. I thought it was hilarious, given Agis's previous behaviour.

I just kept sitting and not looking at the puppy, and then it decided to bark in the direction of the store's door.

Heh.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Agis was very good today.

We were out for a walk and passed a man who appeared to be both homeless and mentally ill sitting on a wall/lawn. He made all sorts of weird noises which creeped Agis out - the man wanted to say hi, but I kept Agis at a short distance while the other dogs said hi. Agis calmed down, but I thought, well, that's good for today. His body language was better, but still a bit alert. Didn't want a bad interaction for both the man and Agis. I'd like him to be neutral and even friendly in that sort of situation, but there's not a lot of homeless people around where we live, so this was a good first time (leaving the guy without pants, who was much further away).

Agis is a bit off with people behaving erratically. My GSD boy was similar in that.

We ran into his former walker and her twin (friends of ours) running and while he's very well-behaved with other people, he loses his mind with them...they're soooooo exciting. They were happy to see him though.

Then walking up another street a worker across the street started 'woofing' at Agis and then from a distance made a big fuss over him.

So he was a popular boy today!
 

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Agis was very good today.

We were out for a walk and passed a man who appeared to be both homeless and mentally ill sitting on a wall/lawn. He made all sorts of weird noises which creeped Agis out - the man wanted to say hi, but I kept Agis at a short distance while the other dogs said hi. Agis calmed down, but I thought, well, that's good for today. His body language was better, but still a bit alert. Didn't want a bad interaction for both the man and Agis. I'd like him to be neutral and even friendly in that sort of situation, but there's not a lot of homeless people around where we live, so this was a good first time (leaving the guy without pants, who was much further away).

Agis is a bit off with people behaving erratically. My GSD boy was similar in that.

We ran into his former walker and her twin (friends of ours) running and while he's very well-behaved with other people, he loses his mind with them...they're soooooo exciting. They were happy to see him though.

Then walking up another street a worker across the street started 'woofing' at Agis and then from a distance made a big fuss over him.

So he was a popular boy today!
Sounds like a nice day and a good dog! 👍😁
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It was a nice walk. I'd walked him this morning far more quietly.

The guy woofing at him cracked me up. He said he'd had/has a dog, and I dunno...I wouldn't woof at a dog to get their attention. Mind you, Agis seemed okay, so maybe he's onto something? Heh!
 

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It was a nice walk. I'd walked him this morning far more quietly.

The guy woofing at him cracked me up. He said he'd had/has a dog, and I dunno...I wouldn't woof at a dog to get their attention. Mind you, Agis seemed okay, so maybe he's onto something? Heh!
Ha good story and sounds like a interactive day:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I told my friends I'd pay them in beer to stand in the park across from our house and ignore Agis while I worked on calm reactions and obedience with him. Because he really is well-behaved with EVERYONE but them. And he's VERY excited when we get home, but I mean strangers.
 

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Agis is a weird mix of confident and nervous. Strange guy approaching me late at night - stand forward and watch, hold your ground, no audible reaction.

When we go to the store in our complex, we bring him and tie him up outside - it's off of a driveway, not off of a street, he's out of view. It's always been fine, even with other people waiting outside (they only let one customer in at a time with COVID).

This week I did this - the store's door is open, I didn't hear a thing. I came out, undid him, and walked by a lady who was a bit back and standing waiting. He half-lunged, half-growled at her - very half-hearted, and she said 'That thing went after me twice'.

I don't doubt he did, why would she make that up. I don't know if she approached him somehow and he didn't like it - either through her own ineptitude or because he was nervous being on his own (but the scenario has played out fine for ages now). For him to go after her without enough barking for me to hear, she must've approached him. I never approach the dogs tied outside, except for TinTin, one of our favourite dogs who loves us too - but we're buds.

Either way, we can't guarantee how he'll behave when we're not watching him, and we can't control what people will do when we're not there to step in...so no more taking to the store.

I was really upset. When she said to me he'd gone after her, I was so shocked at even what he did when I was there - because he generally likes people or at the least is neutral with them (outside, anyhow) - that I just said 'Okay' and then she walked into the store (without waiting for a response).

In other news, he graduated virtual obedience II last night.
they can read peoples energy and if he "smelled" fear he went for it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
they can read peoples energy and if he "smelled" fear he went for it.
That's a very good point. Teagan (GSD) knew when people were afraid of her and would try to bully them. I had a male friend that was terrified of her and she was VERY forward with him. First time she met my husband he walked into the house, greeted the dogs, sat down on the floor and she was like 'OH HELLO I LIKE YOU!'. He was not intimidated by her one bit.
 

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Agis is a weird mix of confident and nervous. Strange guy approaching me late at night - stand forward and watch, hold your ground, no audible reaction.

When we go to the store in our complex, we bring him and tie him up outside - it's off of a driveway, not off of a street, he's out of view. It's always been fine, even with other people waiting outside (they only let one customer in at a time with COVID).

This week I did this - the store's door is open, I didn't hear a thing. I came out, undid him, and walked by a lady who was a bit back and standing waiting. He half-lunged, half-growled at her - very half-hearted, and she said 'That thing went after me twice'.

I don't doubt he did, why would she make that up. I don't know if she approached him somehow and he didn't like it - either through her own ineptitude or because he was nervous being on his own (but the scenario has played out fine for ages now). For him to go after her without enough barking for me to hear, she must've approached him. I never approach the dogs tied outside, except for TinTin, one of our favourite dogs who loves us too - but we're buds.

Either way, we can't guarantee how he'll behave when we're not watching him, and we can't control what people will do when we're not there to step in...so no more taking to the store.

I was really upset. When she said to me he'd gone after her, I was so shocked at even what he did when I was there - because he generally likes people or at the least is neutral with them (outside, anyhow) - that I just said 'Okay' and then she walked into the store (without waiting for a response).

In other news, he graduated virtual obedience II last night.
a timid dog is a dangerous dog. Have the dog trained
 

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a timid dog is a dangerous dog. Have the dog trained
Training is not going to change a dogs temperament. Training will help to control the dog. The OP has been in training with this dog since she adopted him from the shelter.
 
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