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Ok guys, I'm new to this, I need your help...I feel at the absolute end of my tether :(
My Teddy is 18 months, we bought him from a reputable breeder, we socialised him from 10 weeks old, he LOVES all other dogs and loves to play. We've always had issues with him even from an early age, he disliked being handled, his attention span was "short" at best which made training a struggle. We used clicker training and treats, he was never as interested in food as he was other dogs. He first "Bit" when he was a year old, my lovely neighbor decided to put her hand over the fence in the back garden, she had no reason to fear him as he'd never bitten before, he bit her and as she is old she has paper thin skin. The second time was my boyfriend football mate, he went to fuss Teddy and he went to bite him, luckily he moved his hand quick enough! Third was my chap, Teddy was being a boisterous boy as usual then play became a bit too much and he lost himself for a minute and but my chap. Fourth was my father in laws neighbour, Teddy escaped the garden (he can be a very good Houdini) and my father in laws neighbor found him near the road so tried to physically move him away and Teddy nipped him. Fifth was a delivery man, as I came back from a walk with Teddy the deliver man was coming out of my front garden and Teddy tried to pull towards him growling and rumbling at him! It took me a lot of strength to keep him away from the delivery man! Sixth was today, normally Teddy is ok with he postman, we normally have the same postman and he's always been ok, but today he came back from a walk with my sister in law and the postman was about to leave the garden, Teddy ran up to him, wagged his tail...then just went to jump at him and nipped him! Now we have had to go away up north and left yesterday and this is where the final straw is...my sister in law is looking after Teddy, she'd walked him and took his collar off to clean it, she then went to place his collar back on him and he started to rumble...she carried on and he fully laid into her hand! He has NEVER bitten her before, and he has made a right mess of her! I love my boy unconditionally but I really am worried to death now, I don't want him to hurt anyone else and I certainly don't want him to have to be destroyed! We are having him neutered next week as we planned to do so around the two year mark, after many different opinions and many ums and ars about when the right time is to do this. A visit to the vet is an absolute nightmare! He's gone to bite MANY vets, one vet muzzled him to cut his nails, she backed him into a corner and when he was clearly in distress she still carried on to try and cut his nails! now anytime a vet or muzzle goes near him he kicks off! Bath time is a similar hassle, he HATES it and when he gets put in that situation growls/rumbles and shows his teeth! I love my boy and need help asap! We've had many useless trainers that say Teddy is "too much" for them  Please don't rip me to pieces, I'm trying, I've never owned a rottie before but I am trying! Believe it or not, on the whole, Ted is a good boy, but there never seems to be any triggers and it seems completely random! Please help us.
 

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Welcome to the wonderful unpredictable world of Rottweiler ownership.

I went through a lot of this with my Bella--not to the extremes you describe. My dog has only bit me--sounds like your's tries to bite everyone he comes into contact with. The trainer I had when I was experiencing this behavior told me the dog had fear aggression. My problem was her lunging and wanting to attack other dogs, not people though.

You said you socialized him from 10 weeks old. What was important was that the breeder socialized him from day one. It sounds like either that didn't happen or something has made Teddy fearful.

I feel for you. I always say the vet visits are the worst when a dog acts like that. You may have to resort to calming meds for vet visits. I never had to do this but my neighbor had to with her male Pitbull. The vet gave her one pill to give him before taking him in.

My best advice is let him know YOU are the boss to him not vice-versa. Caesar Milan teaches that "chht" sound with a physical correction. I've never got that sound to work but a good strong No! works good. I read many training books to try to learn how to handle my "wild Rott." Like you, I didn't want give up on her. Mine also hates baths and having the nails clipped and really puts up a fuss. I had to learn calm assertion to handle those situations.

It's good you are neutering him. That may help some. Others may chime in and give more info on this.

One book I found helpful was "Help! My Dog Has An Attitude" I think you can download an e-book for free.

Lastly, any trainer worth his salt would not tell you a dog is "too much" for them. I hope you are able to find one that really knows what they are doing. Look for experienced Rottweiler trainer.

Best of luck to you and Teddy.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
i Andrea! Its very odd with Ted as it's not everyone, it's like he picks and chooses, some times there's gaps of months, just when we think he's back on track *Boom* he's bitten again! One trainer said he could do anything and the best thing to do was get him euthanised! �� He is also a swine for guarding his "highly prized" treats! Although lately it's starting with his toys too!
 

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This dog is out of control! He's bitten how many people???? He guards his treats, and now his toys too??? Get him neutered, and with the loss of some of the testosterone he may become easier to handle...but he needs lots of training and work to be trusted. He may never be able to be trusted. See if you can find a trainer that specializes in shutzhund training and working with German Shepherds and other working breeds. This dog needs an attitude adjustment...and click and treat and the "pshhhst" sound is not going to do it. If you cannot find help, and seriously change his attitude and behavior...he needs to be euthanized for safety reasons. Rottweilers have a bad reputation as it is... a dog behaving out of control, biting people he knows,etc. is dangerous.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Excuse me? my dog isn't "out of control" I am not a bad owner, I don't abuse him nor I am cruel to him. Surely there has to be a trigger?? I'm not finding your comment as constructive, I'm finding it a little rude! I'm asking for HELP not a lecture.
 

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Excuse me? my dog isn't "out of control" I am not a bad owner, I don't abuse him nor I am cruel to him. Surely there has to be a trigger?? I'm not finding your comment as constructive, I'm finding it a little rude! I'm asking for HELP not a lecture.
You may not like to hear what I've said....but a young dog that has bitten this many people that has escaped out of it's yard...is out of control at the vets is a dangerous dog. I've held these kind of dogs while they were euthanized...because the owners had given them up to rescue...and they were not good candidates for adoption. Your dog needs help and the internet is not the place...you need hands on help. He's out of control because of lack of leadership and training and maybe he is not the right fit for your home. What has the breeder got to say?? They should be helping you.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
You may not like to hear what I've said....but a young dog that has bitten this many people that has escaped out of it's yard...is out of control at the vets is a dangerous dog. I've held these kind of dogs while they were euthanized...because the owners had given them up to rescue...and they were not good candidates for adoption. Your dog needs help and the internet is not the place...you need hands on help. He's out of control because of lack of leadership and training and maybe he is not the right fit for your home. What has the breeder got to say?? They should be helping you.
ok first off, he's "escaped" once...no idea how...I have not said I will get rid of him, nor have I said I will euthanise him! In fact I'm asking for experienced advise to avoid any of these things! Like I have said, I have had, many, many trainers who have given up on him. I do not work, I am always with him, I have no children, just me and partner, he gets 2/3 long walks daily, my house has a large garden, I think my home is more than adequate. The breeder says she won't have him there if he has issues, her solution was to try and push him onto someone else, again, not what I want. I don't buy a dog and bring him into my home, find he has issues and jump to the options of rehoming or euthanising, I will try EVERY option I can.I am on the internet asking for help from experienced owners...I think this is as good a place as any to get help...as it appears that most trainers aren't all they say they are when they come up against an 8st rottie! One suggested an E collar to us! Of course I turned down that option and the trainer said, ok well there's nothing I can do for you then ����*♀
 

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Excuse me? my dog isn't "out of control" I am not a bad owner, I don't abuse him nor I am cruel to him. Surely there has to be a trigger?? I'm not finding your comment as constructive, I'm finding it a little rude! I'm asking for HELP not a lecture.
You are going to wish you listened when your dog mauls someone and you are sued into oblivion. Your dog IS out of control.
 

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Your name claims that you love dogs yes? Well I love my dog, unconditionally, I want to help him, I want him to be happy. No dog is born aggressive...there has to be a reason for what he's doing, he isn't doing it for no reason. Also please do tell me, how can my dog "maul" someone when he's on a lead? I now know what he's capable of and that he's more than willing to act upon whatever is triggering his behaviour, Im not so irresponsible that I'd let him off lead.
 

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He should not be allowed to be making choices! You know now that he can, and will bite. Every bite that he get's in gives him more confidence. You claim he comes from a good breeder...but sadly he does not. A good breeder will take back any of the dogs they have bred, at any times in their life... they should be helping you.

From the information that you have given...he sounds like a spoiled brat. He needs exercise...but he needs training every day too. Start implementing NILIF (do a google search) and start treating him like the spoiled brat that he is. He needs to be corrected for making bad choices...and you need to stop babying him. He's taking over...and you are letting him. A shock collar may be something, that if used with someone that knows what they are doing, and able to teach you how to use it...may help. He's at a bad age...punky teenager...and you may still be able to correct this if you have professional help.
 

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When you say making choices, how do you mean? I know every Bute is a memory, a bad memory, and like you say, with every bite gets that little more confident in doing so. At the time, the breeder seemed reputable, it is now clear that the breeder is money motivated. I most certainly agree that he is being a brat, I do not however baby him. I will look into NILIF, thank you. I knew he'd hit a 'bad age' I just didn't expect it to be this excessive. This is why I asked for help, because I strongly believe I can help him turn this around, whatever the cause.
 

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Is this the correct idea of NILIF training? 'Undesirable behavior can be caused by many things, including undetected illness. No behavior modification program should begin without first taking the dog to a veterinarian for a complete physical examination. While you're there, give your vet a printed copy of this page and ask if it would be an appropriate technique for you to try. The NILIF program is an accepted standard in dog training/behavior but it is not, and is not intended to be, a substitute for an in-person, professional evaluation of your dog's behavior. This technique is intended for dogs in good health and of sound mind and stable temperament.


The NILIF program is remarkable because it's effective for such a wide variety of problems. A shy, timid dog becomes more relaxed knowing that he has nothing to worry about, his owner is in charge of all things. A dog that's pushing too hard to become "top dog" learns that the position is not available and that his life is far more enjoyable without the title.

It is equally successful with dogs that fall anywhere between those two extremes. The program is not difficult to put into effect and it's not time consuming if the dog already knows a few basic obedience commands. I've never seen this technique fail to bring about a positive change in behavior, however, the change can be more profound in some dogs than others. Most owners use this program in conjunction with other behavior modification techniques such as coping with fear or treatment for aggression. It is a perfectly suitable technique for the dog with no major behavior problems that just needs some fine tuning.

ATTENTION ON DEMAND
The program begins by eliminating attention on demand. When your dog comes to you and nudges your hand, saying "pet me! pet me!" ignore him. Don't tell him "no", don't push him away. Simply pretend you don't notice him. This has worked for him before, so don't be surprised if he tries harder to get your attention. When he figures out that this no longer works, he'll stop. In a pack situation, the top ranking dogs can demand attention from the lower ranking ones, not the other way around. When you give your dog attention on demand you're telling him that he has more status in the pack than you do. Timid dogs become stressed by having this power and may become clingy. They're never sure when you'll be in charge so they can't relax. What if something scary happens, like a stranger coming in the house? Who will handle that? The timid dog that is demanding of attention can be on edge a lot of the time because he has more responsibility than he can handle.

Some dogs see their ability to demand attention as confirmation that they are the "alpha", then become difficult to handle when told to "sit" or "down" or some other demand is placed on them. It is not their leadership status that stresses them out, it's the lack of consistency. They may or may not actually be alpha material, but having no one in the pack that is clearly the leader is a bigger problem than having the dog assume that role full time. Dogs are happiest when the pack order is stable. Tension is created by a constant fluctuation of pack leadership.

EXTINCTION BURSTS
Your dog already knows that he can demand your attention and he knows what works to get that to happen. As of today, it no longer works, but he doesn't know that yet. We all try harder at something we know works when it stops working. If I gave you a twenty dollar bill every time you clapped your hands together, you'd clap a lot. But, if I suddenly stopped handing you money, even though you were still clapping, you'd clap more and clap louder. You might even get closer to me to make sure I was noticing that you were clapping. You might even shout at me "Hey! I'm clapping like crazy over here, where's the money?". If I didn't respond at all, in any way, you'd stop. It wasn't working anymore. That last try -- that loud, frequent clapping is an extinction burst. If, however, during that extinction burst, I gave you another twenty dollar bill you'd be right back in it. It would take a lot longer to get you to stop clapping because you just learned that if you try hard enough, it will work.

When your dog learns that the behaviors that used to get him your attention don't work any more he's going to try harder and he's going to have an extinction burst. If you give him attention during that time you will have to work that much harder to get him turned around again. Telling him "no" or pushing him away is not the kind of attention he's after, but it's still attention. Completely ignoring him will work faster and better.

YOU HAVE THE POWER
As the human and as his owner you have control of all things that are wonderful in his life. This is the backbone of the NILIF program. You control all of the resources. Playing, attention, food, walks, going in and out of the door, going for a ride in the car, going to the dog park. Anything and everything that your dog wants comes from you. If he's been getting most of these things for free there is no real reason for him to respect your leadership or your ownership of these things. Again, a timid dog is going to be stressed by this situation, a pushy dog is going to be difficult to handle. Both of them would prefer to have you in charge.

To implement the NILIF program you simply have to have your dog earn his use of your resources. He's hungry? No problem, he simply has to sit before his bowl is put down. He wants to play fetch? Great! He has to "down" before you throw the ball. Want to go for a walk or a ride? He has to sit to get his lead snapped on and has to sit while the front door is opened. He has to sit and wait while the car door is opened and listen for the word (I use "OK") that means "get into the car". When you return he has to wait for the word that means "get out of the car" even if the door is wide open. Don't be too hard on him. He's already learned that he can make all of these decisions on his own. He has a strong history of being in control of when he gets these resources. Enforce the new rules, but keep in mind that he's only doing what he's been taught to do and he's going to need some time to get the hang of it all.

You're going to have to pay attention to things that you probably haven't noticed before. If you feed your dog from your plate do you just toss him a green bean? No more. He has to earn it. You don't have to use standard obedience commands, any kind of action will do. If your dog knows "shake" or "spin around" or "speak" use those commands. Does your dog sleep on your bed? Teach him that he has to wait for you to say "OK" to get on the bed and he has to get down when you say "off". Teach him to go to his bed, or other designated spot, on command. When he goes to his spot and lays down tell him "stay" and then release him with a treat reward. Having a particular spot where he stays is very helpful for when you have guests or otherwise need him out of the way for a while. It also teaches him that free run of the house is a resource that you control. There are probably many things that your dog sees as valuable resources that I haven't mentioned here.

The NILIF program should not be a long, drawn out process. All you need to do is enforce a simple command before allowing him access to what he wants. Dinner, for example, should be a two or three second encounter that consists of nothing more than saying "sit", then "good dog!", then putting the bowl down and walking away.

ATTENTION AND PLAY
Now that your dog is no longer calling the shots you will have to make an extra effort to provide him with attention and play time. Call him to you, have him "sit" and then lavish him with as much attention as you want. Have him go get his favorite toy and play as long as you both have the energy. The difference is that now you will be the one initiating the attention and beginning the play time. He's going to depend on you now, a lot more than before, to see that he gets what he needs. What he needs most is quality time with you. This would be a good time to enroll in a group obedience class. If his basic obedience is top notch, see about joining an agility class or fly ball team.

NILIF DOES *NOT* MEAN THAT YOU HAVE TO RESTRICT THE AMOUNT OF ATTENTION YOU GIVE TO YOUR DOG. The NILIF concept speaks to who initiates the attention (you!), not the amount of attention. Go ahead and call your dog to you 100 times a day for hugs and kisses!! You can demand his attention, he can no longer demand yours!

Within a day or two your dog will see you in a whole new light and will be eager to learn more. Use this time to teach new things, such as 'roll over' or learn the specific names of different toys.

If you have a shy dog, you'll see a more relaxed dog. There is no longer any reason to worry about much of anything. He now has complete faith in you as his protector and guide. If you have a pushy dog he'll be glad that the fight for leadership is over and his new role is that of devoted and adored pet. '
 

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Essentially he now needs to work for everything he gets to make him understand you set the rules not him.
His manners will improve as he learns what you expect from him in terms of behavior.

Mealtimes, you eat first, make sure he sees you eat first, but ignore him during meals and ensure he gives you plenty of distance when you eat.
If you move from room to room, he doesnt get to block doorways, best to move him.
He doesnt get to sit on people furniture unless invited, many people prefer not to let them on at all, but if you do he doesnt get up on chairs without your permission.
You go through doors first, him afterwards and not in an excited way.
Always practice calm authority, no shouting at him, that creates excitement. Ignoring is best, when he gives you behavior you approve of praise him loads - a stupid amount of praise/treats or play with a toy.
You need to reinforce good behaviour and ignore any demands for attention you did not initiate.
A lot of the time it involves standing up walking towards him with you head up and taking his space and making it your own, you can do this almost silently.
You should ideally be giving words to behavior you like and have sounds or words for no, leave it, back, wait etc.
If you need to get a traffic handle style leash and when supervised leave it on him indoors, if he acts up calmly and confidently take the leash and take him out of the room when he displays excited, aggressive or non-compliant behavior and stand silently on the other side of the door until he is calm and then just drop the leash and return to what you were doing.
Never use long bouts of frustrated commands keep commands short and clear and use the same tone. Dogs dont really understand words but they do understand sounds and tone is key.
Always be firm but fair, consistency is really the most important thing of all, dont allow a behavior you dont like or it will continue.

Most of this is easy when they are young and want to do what you ask and doesnt take forever to do, some people dont really need to do all that much, the pup will get it if you do as mother dog would do.
When they are an adolescent they test you much more, its their way of rising in the pack to see what they can get away with and reversing learned negative behavior is straight forward enough, its just consistently firm but fair reinforcement of your rules in the house.

Crating for time outs is useful but give him a treat for going to the crate as you dont want the crate feel like a punishment.

I found the more you play their game the more control they have over you so when they jump and mouth or similar dont get angry - they love that, i guess it comes from being bred to not back down to a stubborn bull or other livestock. Anger is a sort of excitement and to control them you need to have no excitement. You need positive excitement for training and teaching new commands or skills but for discipline aloof authority get results.

Think of your fairest but most strict teacher, someone you always gave respect to because they earned it, that is the model to follow to rectify these issues.
When you start to get results eventually he will look to you before making decisions instead of assuming he is in charge.

You just need a couple of little successes to build you confidence and he will respond to you the more confident you become.

Good luck
 

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Affiliate13! THANK YOU! This is the type of constructive help I am needing! I usually put him out of the room when we eat anyway, but like you say, I will let him see us eat then feed him after us. We don't let him on furniture anyway so that's not really an issue, apart from when he's not getting the attention he's after, he jumps up at my partner while he is sat on the sofa, he does not do this to me, very rarely anyway. When he's not hyper he listens to my commands, sit, stay, leave, drop etc. We do not crate anymore, however he does have a plastic bed with a materiel that we use instead, the command bed, is tricky sometimes, especially when he doesn't WANT to go on it. You are correct, when we lose our temper he sees it as a game! I like your teacher comparison, bang on there! Thank you so much for your post! I have screen shorted it and feel more positive on the route to take to move my pooch out of this mess!
 

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I would agree with what the others have said. Your dog will take matters into his own hands if he feels you are not taking control of a situation. You will need to learn his triggers and take control of the situation when the triggers happen, before he does. It is hard to hear but 100% on target, your dog is out of control and dangerous. You will need to accept this as true to understand how serious the situation is. It is up to you to regain the alpha position in the relationship before he becomes another stat, feeding breed specific legislation. Looks like you have found some resources online but nothing compares to personal hands on training, he needs this. Taking him on walks is great but his mind needs to be worked also. You should be spending about 15-20 minutes at a time 3-4 times a day working his commands. Take his toys off the ground so he only gets them when you give them to him. After a good session of commands, play with him using his favorite toys and then put them back up. Good luck with him and keep us updated.
 

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Yes as Xaza points out exercise helps a huge amount. I should have mentioned this before. When out with him have some high value treats (not dog food) that you dont give him for anything else.
Use these to reinforce good behavior. I use a little boiled chicken or tiny (really, really small) cubes of cheese. They just need to be big enough to taste and soft enough to swallow without chewing. If they are crunchy treats by the time they are done eating them they can have forgotten what they got it for.
The faster he does a good thing the faster he gets the treat. So have them in your hand not fumbling about in a pocket to find them.
He must never demand treats from you, he must do something to get them or he gets ignored or use your body to move him away and block him. Always aloof, use your low tone to tell him you are not happy.

He will understand that he gets nice treats and praise (high tones) when he does as you ask, and gets no response when he pushes you.
The exercise will make it much easier to manage him in other situations, use intense bouts of exercise (always bring water and these dogs dont do well in the sun for long) prior to meeting new people or going to new places. A tired dog is a good dog.
Drain his energy and making corrections to other behavior takes less time and makes you seem like you are more in control as he wont have as much of a will to defy you.

Keep training sessions short but frequent as Xaza says, play time is training time, training time is play time. You are in charge and set the activities and when they end.
If they are too long the dog loses focus and you lose authority as he decides the game is over instead of you, always end on a high right when he is enjoying it the most, this creates a memory of it being really fun not boring leaving him to look for a new distraction.
Have training toys that he only gets when you use them together this way they are "your" toys and not "his", he can have his own chews or something but the really fun toys he has to come to you to use.

Think about the what this breed was for: pulling carts, droving cattle, protecting its handler. So consider the mentality, endurance and intelligence needed for these tasks (although modern Rotts may well have lost a lot of it, there is plenty left to make them a handful) and factor in the idea you need to channel these attributes into something constructive for if he channels them into activities he selects they are no longer attributes they are liabilities.

I reckon you know what is required now, accept you will make many mistakes but dont get discouraged and initially progress will be inconsistent but be resolute, the alternative is a serious injury for someone innocent and possibly his ultimate death not to mention any legal action.
You seem to want to resolve it, if you take take time every day in all situations (if you have a busy day crate him until you can give him the structured attention he needs, this wont be a forever technique and means you dont allow relapses in behavior because you are distracted and ill prepared due to family and work commitments, it isnt a bad thing for a dog to learn to be bored) progress will come.

If he is a higher energy dog you may require more help, look for an IPO dog club, ask them to assess him first before turning up to a class and get a training plan you can work on at home in between classes. You will be stunned at how fast these dogs learn when they get to do work (well lets call it simulated work).
He will be happier and so will you.

If you can take a weekend where your schedule is pretty clear and set out what you want to do with him and spend those two days practicing what has been discussed here to make an intense series of sessions to have the tide move in your direction. If you can book a proper trainer that understands the breed they could come and give you some pointers (the devil is in the detail and experience can cut problems in half) bear in mind an ill prepared trainer can make things much worse so if you do choose this route research insofar as you can how much use they might be.

Good luck, keep coming back to let us know how you progress, you can mold him into a great ambassador for the breed and the initial hard work pays dividends when you get over the top of hill.
 

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Great advise given! I also want to point out that you mentioned that he was starting to guard his treats and toys...that is another sign that he is thinking he is in charge. For now, put away his toys...and only pull out a toy when you play with him...then put it away. Do not allow him to be guarding them. Same with the treats, or chewies. Start crating him again, and only give him a treat in his crate. This will help you start getting control back. For now do not allow him to go near any strangers, or friends or relatives. Let him drag a short leash around the house...so you can control him if he starts reacting to things. You need to be able to control him at all times.

As has been mentioned...NILIF is asking him for a command for everything. He wants to go out the door...he sits and waits till he is released. He wants his food...again, sit and wait,etc. He wants to be petted, or attentions....a command is given. You ask him to "jump" and he asks "how high?"..LOL Never walk around him if he is in the way, always make the dog move out of the way. Don't give him unnecessary attention...he must earn it. No fussing and babying. No beds, no furniture.
 

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The guarding thing would definitely be one to work on.
I think BBB gave some advice recently on this in another thread, I will have a look in a minute to see if i can find it, I think it was specifically about food aggression but there was another thread too which had some good info in it i just cant find it atm.

When we got Ebba, she got to about 7mths, maybe younger when i gave her a nice meaty bone and left her to it. I came back a few mins later to take her out and she decided to give a growl over the bone. I really was surprised, it took me a moment to remember what the breeder had told me about grabbing the scruff of the next to give a very quick, very short shake as a mother dog would do, but i didnt do it, i hesitated as she wasnt really a pup anymore and was looking a lot bigger than i had really notice so I wasnt really sure what the right thing to do was.
At any rate I decided not to leave it and let it develop into a habit, I remembered some of the advice our trainer had given us so i went with that.
I gave her a better treat (trading for better treats works to get them to give most things up and keeps trust in place as you havent just taken their "treasure" and left them immediately frustrated with nothing) and as she took it i stood over the bone, once she realised i had the bone she knew she couldnt take it without coming into my space (between my shoes, not in front of them). I held it and let her chew it, after a few seconds i asked her to leave and move back (dont pull it away they will follow it, make them move back or stretch your other arm out to indicate this is your space), as soon as she did it, i again held the bone and let her at it. After a few more times and on each occasion the quicker she left it the quicker i invited her back to get it.
The reward is in how quickly they get it just as much as in getting it at all. Practice keeping things in your hand when feeding treats rather than just surrendering the item (when they are calm at the start, dont begin a exercise when they are excited) your scent reminds them the "thing" is your property and they need to be respectful to get it.
Same applies in how they take it when you allow it, they cant lunge and gobble it with teeth, they need to take it gently. Trust is important to build with this as a dog that has been tricked or deprived of a promised treat a few times will tend to snatch items. Slow the initial part of the process down until the give you their attention, once they are looking to you nice things for them happen faster, keep yourself upright and praise when they take the treat gently.
We got it to a point where we can walk over to her engrossed in chewing a bone and say, "back" and she will leave it and scuttle back so i make sure i hand (so it comes from me) it to her immediately for being so responsive.

I tend not to do it with her main meal though i think it did when she was younger but as i mentioned before it is as much about being fair and not just being in charge, i ask her to give me space and she waits at arms length when i am putting it out and not to lunge in for it when it is ready and in return i dont keep her waiting more than a few seconds. I really just want her to look at me to say, "is it OK to have it now?" and to me that is respectful enough.
For his main meal/s try hand feeding to slow him down and again after he has seen you eat.

Looking back over this i might be rambling a bit, i am writing this in between jobs, anyway i need to get moving. Good luck.
 
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