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This is a informative video about the benefits of feeding dogs and cats a species specific, raw food diet. The veterinarian in the video also give answers to the questions about parasites and salmonella. JJ is fed a raw prey diet: 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, 5% liver and 5% other organ meat. He gets approximately 2 lbs a day, which is 2% of his ideal adult weight of 100 lbs. Most of the meat is whole meat, very little is ground. He gets most of his bone content from chicken leg quarters, but also some bone from various cuts of pork.

YouTube - Raw Meat Diet for Dogs and Cats
 
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After I watched that thread....I happened onto this link and was shocked. YouTube - This is what happens when you feed raw food to dogs!!!
Never seen a dog just slop down a whole chicken....and I must admit that I (like most out there) have been "brainwashed" into thinking kibble only diet is appropriate. Now I am starting to think seriously about continuing with supplementation for our dog's...and see where we go from there. Going to need some education on the matter though...anyone have a good reference regarding? Links? Thanks for any information regarding.
Great thread, and thanks for the initial link...opened my eye's.
 

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I have been tiptoe-ing into feeding raw for a few months (supplementing raw in place of some of their kibble) The dogs are delirious with happiness, and are doing well. When their kibble went up to $70 for a 30 lb bag, I jumped off the dock per say, and starting giving them raw(usually a chicken leg qtr) for dinner, and 1 cup of kibble with some raw (pork or beef) in the mornings. I do mix it up, and make sure they get some organ meat. My main concern with raw diet was not knowing for sure they were getting the proper nutritional requirements, but they are doing great so far, and my goal is to have them off kibble completely once my confidence in what I am doing becomes more concrete.

Lew Olsen has a great book out now regarding raw, and also Monica Segal. In fact, I believe yahoo has a raw/home cooked group that is very helpful. Just dont get information overload like I did, and drive yourself crazy. Whats best is what works for YOUR dog, and they each are as individual as we are.

I really had to laugh when I gave Sadie and Nino their first raw quarter. they both sniffed, licked at it, and sat and looked at it, then me. (until then they had had like stew chunks beef and pork). I flipped Sadies over to the unskin side, and she tore right into it. Nino still just looked at his, so I had to cut it up at the bone joints.
 

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I watched the video of that nice looking rottie eating a chicken and I had to turn it off. My stomach started getting really queasy. I am sure raw feeding is good but I can't even watch animals eating animals on the Discovery Channel. I don't have a problem watching fish being eaten by bears etc. but that is all I can watch without feeling ill. I know I'm a wuss. LOL!
 

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I watched the video of that nice looking rottie eating a chicken and I had to turn it off. My stomach started getting really queasy. I am sure raw feeding is good but I can't even watch animals eating animals on the Discovery Channel. I don't have a problem watching fish being eaten by bears etc. but that is all I can watch without feeling ill. I know I'm a wuss. LOL!
You could be "The Wife".... she is the same way Martha....walk right out of the room if there is animal killing animal....let alone a hurt puppy or kitten...forget it.
That Rottie eating a whole chicken still takes me back a bit....always being told...no chicken bones...ect....that dog just "downed" them....here all the time I was worried about grass, dirt, sticks, and an occasional pea sized rock.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
.....
That Rottie eating a whole chicken still takes me back a bit....always being told...no chicken bones...ect....that dog just "downed" them....here all the time I was worried about grass, dirt, sticks, and an occasional pea sized rock.
It is the cooked bones that are a danger to our dogs. That is because they are dry and brittle. They break into sharp pointy bones that do cause damage. But uncooked chicken bones are just fine. I LOVE to watch (and HEAR) JJ crunch on a chicken leg quarter. It is such a very natural thing. To me, the sight of his eating raw meat and bones reaffirms that raw food is the best for our dogs.

JJ also gets pork bones from roasts and I am able to get him very large pork neck bones (really the neck and the clavicle) from a supplier in the area. I have avoided beef leg bones because they are weight bearing bones, and have been reported to cause cracks in dog teeth. When you read reports of what wolves eat, they don't eat the leg bones of their prey.
 

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After I watched that thread....I happened onto this link and was shocked. YouTube - This is what happens when you feed raw food to dogs!!!
Never seen a dog just slop down a whole chicken....and I must admit that I (like most out there) have been "brainwashed" into thinking kibble only diet is appropriate. Now I am starting to think seriously about continuing with supplementation for our dog's...and see where we go from there. Going to need some education on the matter though...anyone have a good reference regarding? Links? Thanks for any information regarding. Great thread, and thanks for the initial link...opened my eye's.
That dog is not eating a whole chicken - only a few chicken leg quarters! Some raw feeders do provide the whole animal - with feathers!!!! I admit that if I had a more private backyard, I would consider doing that. But right now, I don't want to upset the neighbors. Those that know I raw feed still think I am a bit weird for doing so!

Lew Olson's book was already mentioned. I haven't read it, but I do subscribe to her newsletter and am a member of her forum. I would recommend her book above all others because she is a canine nutritionist - AND - she raises rottweilers! You can buy it on Amazon.com.

When you transition a dog from kibble to raw, you want to introduce the different protein sources slowly. It is recommended to start with chicken for 2 - 3 weeks, then, just a little bit at a feeding, introduce a new protein source until your dog is eating a full meal of the new source. You then go about 2 weeks with chicken and the new source, then go to source #3. The overall combination is 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver and 5% other organ meat. The bone is best served as bone with alot of meat on it - like the chicken leg quarters. And you feed 2% or more of their ideal weight each day. For a 100 lb dog, that would be 2 lbs a day. That is what I feed JJ. An active dog would get more, you adjust accordingly. In a week's time, JJ gets 14 lbs of food. I give him just a little bit of organ meat each day, instead of a complete meal of organ meat. For his weight, he gets .75 lbs liver and .75 any other organ meat a week (note that heart is NOT an organ meat, it is a muscle meat). I take those amounts of organ meat and cut them into 7 servings and freeze them. Each evening, he gets some frozen organ meat as his 'dessert'. He is fed twice a day, and he gets meat with bone every third meal. That is what works for him. The bone, in addition to being a nutritional source, is also the 'binding' to keep his stool solid. Another plus is that you know what you are feeding your dog - with kibble there is always a question as to if the formula has been tampered with in some way.

And regarding the nutritional benefits of kibble - the best only provide the minimum nutritional requirements! Raw is easier for a dog to digest, there is much less waste - the stools of raw fed dogs are significantly less than dogs on kibble!

And with all that said, I freely admit that JJ gets kibble occasionally. At one time, the kennel where he is boarded would not feed raw, so he had kibble then. They now will feed raw meat, but nothing with whole bones. At another time, I was very ill, and I did not have the time to cut and bag servings of raw. I used Wellness and Evo kibble at those times.
 

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I watched the video of that nice looking rottie eating a chicken and I had to turn it off. My stomach started getting really queasy. I am sure raw feeding is good but I can't even watch animals eating animals on the Discovery Channel. I don't have a problem watching fish being eaten by bears etc. but that is all I can watch without feeling ill. I know I'm a wuss. LOL!
If you are interested in feeding a raw diet, My Pet Carnivore has reasonably priced ground foods that have the proper ratio of muscle meat, organ and bone. And - instead of paying for shipping, they deliver to several places in Ohio for a $10 pick-up fee.
 

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That dog is not eating a whole chicken - only a few chicken leg quarters! Some raw feeders do provide the whole animal - with feathers!!!! I admit that if I had a more private backyard, I would consider doing that. But right now, I don't want to upset the neighbors. Those that know I raw feed still think I am a bit weird for doing so!

Lew Olson's book was already mentioned. I haven't read it, but I do subscribe to her newsletter and am a member of her forum. I would recommend her book above all others because she is a canine nutritionist - AND - she raises rottweilers! You can buy it on Amazon.com.

When you transition a dog from kibble to raw, you want to introduce the different protein sources slowly. It is recommended to start with chicken for 2 - 3 weeks, then, just a little bit at a feeding, introduce a new protein source until your dog is eating a full meal of the new source. You then go about 2 weeks with chicken and the new source, then go to source #3. The overall combination is 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver and 5% other organ meat. The bone is best served as bone with alot of meat on it - like the chicken leg quarters. And you feed 2% or more of their ideal weight each day. For a 100 lb dog, that would be 2 lbs a day. That is what I feed JJ. An active dog would get more, you adjust accordingly. In a week's time, JJ gets 14 lbs of food. I give him just a little bit of organ meat each day, instead of a complete meal of organ meat. For his weight, he gets .75 lbs liver and .75 any other organ meat a week (note that heart is NOT an organ meat, it is a muscle meat). I take those amounts of organ meat and cut them into 7 servings and freeze them. Each evening, he gets some frozen organ meat as his 'dessert'. He is fed twice a day, and he gets meat with bone every third meal. That is what works for him. The bone, in addition to being a nutritional source, is also the 'binding' to keep his stool solid. Another plus is that you know what you are feeding your dog - with kibble there is always a question as to if the formula has been tampered with in some way.

And regarding the nutritional benefits of kibble - the best only provide the minimum nutritional requirements! Raw is easier for a dog to digest, there is much less waste - the stools of raw fed dogs are significantly less than dogs on kibble!

And with all that said, I freely admit that JJ gets kibble occasionally. At one time, the kennel where he is boarded would not feed raw, so he had kibble then. They now will feed raw meat, but nothing with whole bones. At another time, I was very ill, and I did not have the time to cut and bag servings of raw. I used Wellness and Evo kibble at those times.

PA, thanks for the insight...and I referenced the books above.... probably going with Lew's...as I can order if from Wally World for 10 bucks. Right now, I have an ample supply of Venison....and will be able to supplement CoCo on it in the interim. I must say short of supplementing here an there....for a month or two...until I can get this figured out...it will still be tough to estimate daily requirement's for a growing dog. The venison I have is boned out already (we do all our own processing)...but this fall...will/should be able to stack enough venison in the freezer for the year for CoCo. I have been an avid bowhunter for over 25 years...and bring back about 400-500lbs of venison every November.
 

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The overall combination is 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver and 5% other organ meat
I have never quite understood the idea of 10% bone as most carcass ranges from approx 25% to 40% bone and with small prey such non-flight fowl such as chicken and rabbit especially, (gone in a nano second when caught on the run by my dogs) the entire bone content is eaten in one sitting.

I dont feed ground meat full stop for several reasons, but the information below shows a variety of ratios, when you get to the ground (minced) meat and organs such as heart etc the cal/phos ratio alters dramatically and to my mind feeding so much meat would thus potentially cause imbalance leading to problems in large and giant breed pupies and dogs

Ratios - Chicken

Figures are mean values for a certain number of checks in various products, they are to be used as an approximate guide and not as definitive values set in stone. It is important to understand animals are raised differently (pasture raised vs intensively raised) and this and the season the animal was slaughtered will have a bearing on the composition of fats etc.

Values for Protein, Fat and Carbs are grams per 100 grams (approx 3.5 ounces)
Values for calcium and Phosphorus are milligrams (mg) per 100 grams.

Whole Chicken 48-51% meat, 28-32% bone, 12-14% skin, 7-8% separable fat - Calories 192
Protein 13.8 Fat 12.3 Calcium 723-840 Phosphorus 456

Chicken Neck (with skin) 25% meat, 36% bone, 39% skin & separable fat - Calories 267
Protein 12.7 Fat 16.7 Calcium 700-840 Phosphorus 420-870

Chicken Neck (without skin) 41% meat, 59% bone - Calories 152
Protein 15.6 Fat 11.1 Calcium 890-1580 Phosphorus 500-1415

Chicken Back ( with skin) 29% meat, 44% bone, 10% skin, 17% separable fat - Calories 208
Protein 16.1 Fat 15.8 Calcium 740-1300 Phosphorus 480-970

Chicken Back (without skin) 40% meat, 60% bone - Calories 137
Protein 16.1 Fat 7.2 Calcium 1500 Phosphorus 840

Chicken Wings (with skin) 32% meat, 46% bone, 22% skin, 5% separable fat - Calories 244
Protein 17.5 Fat 15.3 Calcium 620-1150 Phosphorus 430-660

Chicken Legs (with skin) 57% meat, 46% bone, 11% skin, 5% separable fat - Calories 187
Protein 17.2 Fat 11.4 Calcium770-1190 Phosphorus 540-690

Turkey Neck 58% Meat 42% bone, - Calories 116
Protein 17.0 Fat 5.8 Calcium 500-800 Phosphorus 670 -1390

Whole Rabbit (without skin) 25% bone, 75% meat - Calories 125
Protein 17.8 Fat 5.8 Calcium 500-800 Phosphorus 370-690

Values for ground meat (mince) is given without added bone, note the great difference in the cal/phos ratio. One should check with the supplier for a guaranteed analysis of bone content, if any.

Minced Beef Calories 254
Protein 17% Fat 20% Calcium 18mg per 100 grams Phosphorus 158mg per 100 grams

Minced Lamb Calories 282
Protein 16.6 Fat 23.4 Calcium 16 Phosphorus 157

Minced Turkey Calories 149
Protein 17.5 Fat 8.3 Calcium13 Phosphorus 157

Chicken Breast (skinless) Calories 110
Protein 23.1 Fat 1.2 Calcium 11 Phosphorus 196

Chicken - Dark meat & skin Calories 237
Protein 16.7 Fat 18.3 Calcium 11 Phosphorus 136

Green Tripe Calories 167
Protein 10.0 - 15.8 Fat 5.0-11.7 Calcium 120-164 Phosphorus 140-164

Beef Liver Calories 135 Carbs 3.9
Protein 20.4 Fat 3.6 Calcium 5 Phosphorus 387

Beef Heart Calories 107 Carbs 0.1
Protein 17.7 Fat 3.9 Calcium 7 Phosphorus 212

Beef Tongue (113g - 4oz) Calories 253 Carbs 4.2
Protein 16.8 Fat 18.2 Calcium Phosphorus

Chicken Liver Calories 119 Carbs 0.7
Protein 16.9 Fat 4.8 Calcium 8 Phosphorous 297

Egg - 2 large (without shell = 100g) Calories 147 Carbs 0.8
Protein 12.6 Fat 9.9 Calcium 241 Phosphorous 191

Mackerel (canned) Calories 156
Protein 23.2 Fat 6.3 Calcium 241 Phosphorous 301

Sardines (canned) Calories 186 Carbs 0.7
Protein 20.9 Fat 10.5 Calcium 240 Phosphorous 366
 

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You could be "The Wife".... she is the same way Martha....walk right out of the room if there is animal killing animal....let alone a hurt puppy or kitten...forget it.
That Rottie eating a whole chicken still takes me back a bit....always being told...no chicken bones...ect....that dog just "downed" them....here all the time I was worried about grass, dirt, sticks, and an occasional pea sized rock.
I think some people just have a hard time with raw meat. As a child I found it hard to eat eggs and still don't like them because I think of them as baby chickens. I am a wuss extraordinaire! LOL!
 

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Ok... apparently I have taken this to a new height....and am really considering a raw diet for CoCo. I have been reading all day...and have one big question...do I make the switch all at once....after a 12 hour break in kibble....or convert as I would when switching dog food?
 

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I did mine gradual, adding raw to their kibble. Then I started giving their dinner raw, and they still get kibble with raw in the am. Im sure other raw feeders will have better insight for you, thats just what I did. Besides, I am waiting for my freezer to come, and I still have kibble. I dont want to waste that. I think its good to give them a variety of different things, in case the event ever happens when they might need to be fed something different. It wont be a total shock to their system.
Nino will eat anything- Sadie was real quick to tell me she wasnt eating kibble without something raw in it. She is SOOOOO spoiled!
 

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When you continue to give them kibble they aren't getting 100% from the raw. If you switch totally you will see within two weeks them pooping real bad. That is the raw clearing out crap in their stomache from the kibble that they can't digest. At two weeks you should see them with more energy.

Ross
 

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When you continue to give them kibble they aren't getting 100% from the raw. If you switch totally you will see within two weeks them pooping real bad. That is the raw clearing out crap in their stomache from the kibble that they can't digest. At two weeks you should see them with more energy.

Ross
CoCo needs more energy like I need another 20 lbs.... HA. I read that mixing kibble with raw can upset their stomach...and tonight I tried giving venison to CoCo with her kibble...and she vomited it all up within minutes...forcing me to give her kibble. I had it mixed at 25% raw... 75% kibble...not sure if it was because she was not used to it...it was not in small enough chunks...or what. I'm thinking of trying Chicken now, as starting her out on deer might be a bit "strong" of a meat?
 

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she could have vomitted from woofing it down maybe? I started mine out with a piece of my steak from the grill (I like mine pretty much raw too)etc- more like a treat as opposed to a meal. They get marrow bones with meat for chewing a couple times a week too- Im sure that helped them to acclimate. Then I started chunking beef, pork chicken and incorporating into their food...it was a very slow process more for me than them, but they are doing great.

I know they digest kibble at a much slower rate than they do raw meat, and maybe that threw her stomach into chaos, but my two have never had a problem with it. Each dog is different I guess. You just have to find what works for you and CoCo. You will find yourself thinking "is that all she gets per meal??" at least I did. Have to change the mindset from cups to ounces. Red meat might be a bit too rich to start her on- especially venison, so maybe a chicken drumstick or thigh would be easier for her. Good luck and keep me posted on how its going. Im new at this too.
 

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White meat (chicken) is a mild protein compared to other meats. So chicken is a good item to start them on. Small piece of venison at a time as a snack or treat is what you might have to do for her. But deer is probably the best raw red meat for a dog due to its variety of minerals & nutrients.

Ross
 

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she could have vomitted from woofing it down maybe? I started mine out with a piece of my steak from the grill (I like mine pretty much raw too)etc- more like a treat as opposed to a meal. They get marrow bones with meat for chewing a couple times a week too- Im sure that helped them to acclimate. Then I started chunking beef, pork chicken and incorporating into their food...it was a very slow process more for me than them, but they are doing great.

I know they digest kibble at a much slower rate than they do raw meat, and maybe that threw her stomach into chaos, but my two have never had a problem with it. Each dog is different I guess. You just have to find what works for you and CoCo. You will find yourself thinking "is that all she gets per meal??" at least I did. Have to change the mindset from cups to ounces. Red meat might be a bit too rich to start her on- especially venison, so maybe a chicken drumstick or thigh would be easier for her. Good luck and keep me posted on how its going. Im new at this too.
Yeah...I think it was a combination of things...I chunked the venison...and when she puked it up...it was unchewed chunks...mixed with kibble. The reason I started her with venison...is because I have given it before without a problem. I will be trying chicken tonight...and will hit the store and get some bone in breast's...and see what happens. The Mrs's is not for any of this...but she will go with it....I can't imagine what she is going to do when I give CoCo a bone in chicken breast....I still debate boning it out...but that didn't work with the venison...so the heck with it. I'm also going to hit the butcher shop and get a few raw bones for her to dig into...and get her used to raw meat that way.
Thanks Hawk...
I plan on giving her venison on a frequent basis if possible...the only problem is none of it has bone in it...so I will have to serve it with chicken...ect...that has bone in it to "bind" her a bit. Is that why people feed carrot's...peas...ect?
Thanks for all the help so far....we will see how this goes.
 

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A dog doesn't need a balanced diet daily. A balanced diet weekly is fine. Chicken leg quarters have about a perfect balance of meat, fat, & bone so is a good source for the basis of raw feeding. Then add weekly at various meals some red meat, organ meat, & fish.
Unless your dog is actually working such as herding sheep daily you don't have to go overboard with the red meat.

Dog get 2-3% of its body weight daily in raw food. You don't have to measure it out. Most things you can estimate. Such as if there are 10 quarters in a 10lb bag of chicken leg quarters they are roughly a pound each. So one per meal twice a day would be 2% for a 100lb dog.

An option to introducing Coco to red meat is raw hamburger.

Ross
 
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