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Discussion Starter #1
We've had ongoing issues with Tiberius's diet since he was about 6mo. We have taken him to a canine dietician who thought he had trouble processing fat and had a grain allergy. We moved him over to Canidae Grain Free, which he seemed to do well with. We then progressed to Orijen which appeared to be too rich for his system and had him for a brief period on a low fat Science Diet formula we picked up from the vet. We eventually moved him back to Canidae.

Tiberius has always been a lean dog, but over the past two months I have become increasingly concerned about what I consider fluxuating weight and muscle loss and periodic loose stools that I believe result from his diet. One thing I have increasingly become concerned with is the possibility of IBS and a pancreatic insufficiency resulting in his inability to derive enough nutrition from his meals. After discussion with my wife, we decided to start him on a raw diet this weekend.

Tiberius is 2yr 3mo old and weighs 90lbs. He is of normal height at 27" at the shoulder and suffers from dandruff, periodic hotspots and goopy eyes. This weekened his meals have consisted of a small rack of beef ribs, beef liver, turkey hearts, beef cheeks and canned tripe. After eating his first meal which was the beef ribs he contently rubbed his face all over my wife's legs and lounged around the house rather contently. His eyes were less goopy through the day.

Yesterday, aside from initial morning goopy eyes which were less severe than normal, his day was mostly goop free. His attitude has also been much more laid back than normal. Today he buried the meaty lamb bone we gave him for lunch after gnawing for awhile. We plan on continuing with his raw diet over the next two weeks, keeping a daily journal and evaluating our findings at the end of each week. At end of our two weeks, we plan on reweighing him to see if his weight has increased and make plans moving forward from there.




 

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Oh, tried him on whole Tilapia as well this weekend but he really didn't know what to do with it and I became concerned about the rather sharp smallish bones so I ended up filleting some of the meat off for him and threw the rest away.
 

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Oh Howard, he is gonna hate that! how can you be so mean as to put him on a raw diet?

It will take a bit to get the kibble out of his system, but Sadies eye boogers disappeared too, and her coat and skin hava improved alot. She is not as crazy for raw fish or chicken livers (go figure), so I give her fish oil.

Good luck, and keep us posted.
 

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You might consider some chicken leg quarters. Chicken has a thin bone which even a puppy can chew.

Not too much organ meat at one time or he may get the runs.

Takes about two weeks of raw feeding for all the kibble crap to clear out of their systems.

Ross
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the advice HuntingHawk. Chicken was already in the plans. I figured we start off with just the one primary meat source, but I plan on spinning by the grocer on the way home from work tonight and grabbing a whole fryer. Since I can butcher it myself the breasts will go to us and the rest of the carcass to him minus the wings.
 

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Good luck with the raw diet. I'm sure you will see a big improvement in Tiberius over the 2 week span. Don't look back! LOL:cool:
 

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I've 7 rescues here & the base of their raw diet is chicken leg quarters. Ty can eat the chicken wings as well as legs because as long as the chicken is raw the bones are soft & pliable. When its cooked those bones get dried out, are sharp, & can splinter.
 

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What a very handsome dog Tiberius is. Great 'foody' pictures.

It can take much longer than 2 weeks for a dog to detox. Its not uncommom especially for males to go and bury their bones for lots of reasons, they may not be hungry and bury it for another day, they also know instictively that chelation takes place when bones are buried in dirt thus increasing nutrient availability. When you first put a dog onto a raw diet it takes a short while for the stomach acids to alter to a low pH which is effective for the digestion of meat and bones.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Tiberius is doing great so far on his raw foods. We've been rotating through ground rabbit w/bone meal, turkey hearts, beef liver, beef cheeks, ox tail, beef ribs, chunk wild caught mackerel and chunk wild caught salmon. We've also been giving him canned Tripe and daily doses of Udo's Choice Pet Essentials powder x4 tsp. His eyes are less goopy of a morning, his demeanor is calmer, he's less itchy and his weight has moved up from 89lbs to 95lbs.

Edited: Unfortunately it seems he's allergic to chicken. We tried him on some chicken thighs and it gave him near explosive runs as well as hives. Oh, he's also have lamb which we think he may be alittle reactive too, but haven't really done any more experimenting with it to make sure. Right now we know he works well with beef, fish and rabbit.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Go easy on the organ meat.

Ross
We've been keeping the liver, turkey hearts, etc down to once a week. It's predominately Beef Ribs, Ground Rabbit, Fish. Today's first meat was a skinless Ox Tail. His 2nd was going to be Ground Rabbit. We've just been feeding him twice a day instead of the three we used to feed him.
 

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This is funny , but my boyfriend eats the grilled chicken wings whole ( including the bone ) and has no health problems , i was worried about giving the rav bones to the dogs before but he told me that if it does no harm to him there is nothing to be worried with the dog ( raw bones are safer than the cooked ones ) , i dont feed fish because i believe the fish bones are dangerous and from evolutionary point of view dog or wolf have never been eating fish as far as i know ,
 

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He is a handsome lad..... :) A raw diet is the way to go! If I would try to give mine kibble they would think I've lost my mind.......LOL
 

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Very glad to hear how well Tiberius is doing on the raw diet. I feed JJ raw as well. We have an excellent thread called "Pros of Raw Feeding" that you should read. I follow the raw prey model, feeding JJ approximately 2 lbs a day (2% of his idea adult weight of 100 lbs). Over the course of a week, getting 14 lbs, it is broken down into 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, 5% liver and 5% other organ meat. I try to provide this ratio on a weekly basis. JJ actually gets a little more than the 10% bone, as that is what seems to work out best for him. Besides the nutrients in bones, it is also what keeps the stools more solid. (Too much bone, however, and you will have a constipated dog.) For the organ meat, he only needs .75 lb of liver and .75 lb of any other organ meat in a week. I take those amounts and cut them into 7 servings. He then gets his organ meat dessert each evening. JJ likes his organ meat frozen, and cutting it in a partially frozen state is a great way to manage it. BTW - in the raw prey diet, heart and gizzards are not considered organ meat, they are considered muscle meats. Organs are the 'squishy' parts of the body, liver, pancreas, lungs, etc.
 

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This is funny , but my boyfriend eats the grilled chicken wings whole ( including the bone ) and has no health problems , i was worried about giving the rav bones to the dogs before but he told me that if it does no harm to him there is nothing to be worried with the dog ( raw bones are safer than the cooked ones ) , i dont feed fish because i believe the fish bones are dangerous and from evolutionary point of view dog or wolf have never been eating fish as far as i know ,
The danger of feeding our large dogs raw chicken wings is not the bone, but that that some dogs will try to swallow the wings whole, and the wing will get lodged in the throat. However, if you are feeding a whole/half chicken, or a chicken breast, you can feed the wing if it is still attached. You have to know your dog's eating habits to know if feeding just wings is safe.

Fish bones are no more dangerous than any other bones, as far as I am aware. Fish, particularly wild caught fish, is a good addition to a canine diet because of the Omega 3s. Omega 3 should be in all animal meat, but it is sadly lacking in most of our farm raised animals. Animals get the omega 3s from eating grasses and the insects that may be in that grass. Farm raised animals are usually grain-fed, not allowed to graze, and therefore really have no source of omega 3.

I give JJ fish oil capsules to make up for any lack of omega 3. (They get enough of the omega 6s in farm raised animals.) I agree that fish is not a primary source from an evolutionary background, but a hungry wolf would go and try to catch a fish if he/she had no other source of food. In the same context, small birds are not the normal prey for our canines, as they would prefer,as a pack, to hunt down a large ungulate. But when necessary, individual wolves will hunt down birds.
 

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You can give him organ daily but be sparing with it. He only needs 3% organ meat maximum.

Ross
Ross, is there new information on organ requirements. I am still reading that our dogs need 10% organ meat, of which 5% should be liver.
 
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