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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been coming here for some time. Just so some of you know I have Dallas, a 18 month old rottie. I had to take my cats to the vet the other day, and to my surprise he ask when we where going to breed her.
We have been on the list for sometime to her her fixed. She had a miscarrage when she was 10 months old,(when we got her she was pregnant) it broke my heart to the point I could not go through that again. Just so everyone knows my vet is big on fixing your pets. So this was a shoke when he asked. I have meet the stud, see all his paper work, Dallas has had all but her hip x-rays. (she has to be 2 years) He has a list of 6 people who want a pup off her. I know of 6 more great people who want a pup. I asked him why these people did not go to the shelter or resue for a pup? He said they had seen her in his office and she was loving to everything(cats in his office) and everyone. And they want to to make sure they are getting a great pup of the breed. I am so unsure of this. I know the work behind great pups, the money I will have to spend and the time. And yes I have the room to keep the hole lot if it came to it. She has been working for her Theropy dog paper. And I could really use some NICE advise here. I have not made up my mind either way.


Shell
 

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Your Vet should not be asking you that question.It's not up to him to find her puppys homes it's your job.He is not the one that will have to make sure this pups are placed in great homes or take one back at three years of age because the people that own it can't control it any more.Or have to put that dog down ,because you can't trust the dog will never bite.If you are just keeping her as a pet have her spayed.There are lots of people like you who breed their pets and sell to anyone(with out back ground checks and contracts).That is how dogs end up in puppy mills and in shelters.


Before being bred a dog should be over two.Hips,Elbows,Eyes,Thyriod,Heart should be tested and Certified(not just okayed by your Vet)and they should be tested for VWD.This are all the health problems that Rottweilers have.Great breeder test for all of these things.To ensure that the future breeding will be breedings of healthy dogs.When breeding the goal is to improve the breed not just to produce puppy because people want one.Have these people get a Rottweiler from a rescue.Do not add to the problem.


Please have her spayed and tell your Vet.he is just your Vet and not a puppy broker.What happens if she misscarries again,or something worse happens is your Vet going to help you with what ever pops up for free.


Sorry if this is long but this is somethng you should not even be thinking about.She is a pet not a brood bitch.


All dogs being breed should first prove them selves in the ring(conformation) and then ina performance ring.Rottweilers were bred for a purpuse,not just because.





DonnaEdited by: rutylr
 

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Shell,


I'm with Donna - PLEASE have her spayed. YOU are the one who is responsible for any puppies she produces and it's a HUGE committment to make.


There are lots of good dogs out there to chose from. Tell all of those people who are begging you to breed your dog to go and look somewhere else.


They should all start with one of the Rottie rescue groups and their local animal shelter. Or contact a professional breeder.
 

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Question</font> .....I was under
the impression you rescued your girl .....
If so do you have papers ?
If not why would someone that
is intending to SELL pups
breed with a dog that has no
papers ? To me papers are something
used incase of an accident .... like i
said in another post Sampsons BLUE
RIBBON is gonna be his voice
control permit ... I am not into it
for the prestiege ( I LOVE animals
) so I would be interested in
a PUP that had no papers ....
But not everyone is like me
.... And I rescued my boy and
they automaticly FIX them ... Oh
yeah she was prego at the
time .... Well good luck in
anything you deside ... Personaly I
would have a litter first ... But
i love dogs & not everyone
want 2 or 3 of them ..... I am sure
that Donna and Missy are
right too ..... But GOOD
LUCK .....



PS : to Donna i have herd there
is a way to get papers
for a dog like mine where
i have none is this true ? ( there
again he is fixed & I
dont show him so )... would there
be a need ? I would like
to know his history ....





</font></font></font>
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
No she is not a resue. Yes I have her papers, And background on her mother. All her test have been ran except hips. and I have found no hip problems in the line. You have to understand one thing too here. She is CKC not AKC. And alot of people think because of that she is not purebreed. This is not true. Her dad has no papers and her mother is AKC. I have had her looked at by three differant vets to be sure there was not mixing and yes the blood work to. I have desided to let her have pups this heat and I will get with a breeder friend of mine to help with backgound checks on people that want a pup. This way to I will not have the pups in the paper, for any crack pot to try to get a pup. I will be keeping 2 pups. I know also I will get a lot of bad feed back for me doing this. I have seen it on to many sites. And for those of you who think I amdoing this for the money, think again. Not in it for the money,


And you can look at the CKC to get paper on your Rottie. Understand you will need 2 people to sigh other than you and really good pictures of him. I had my vet do my paper work. This way there where no questions asked , and the site lets you know what pictures they need of you dog. And your dog needs to be at least 6 months in age.


Shell
 

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to start with the CKC is the puppy millers kennel club,just because she is regestered with them DOES NOT mean she is pure Rottweiler.This is the kennel club bad breeders deal with.


You can not do a test to prove she is pure bred.you can only DNA to prove who her parents were if they themselves were DNA'd.


You now sound like everyone else we are trying to get out of this breed.Ihave a dog with papers and I'm going to breed her.Why it can only be for the money,not for the sake of the breed.You will not be improving the bred by breeding a CKC registered dog,unless you want to be come one of those people who register with that club.


There is no real thought behind this except the cash.Many be I'm wrong,but why ask when you already knew the answer.You have just wasted my time and others who really care about the breed.


Maybe she will have another misscarage,and you could lose her,but you don't seem to care.She going to have pups if it kills her.


Done with this.


Donna
 

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Hi Shell,


I would like to have you hear my input as well.


As a champion and lover of this breed I feel very strongly about which dogs should be bred and which dogs should not. Unfortunatley, puppies are cute and emotion seems to be the ruling facotr when most owners make the decision to breed these dogs.


Here are what I BELIEVE should be the general guidleines when making the choice to breed your dog:


1. BOTH parents should be totally proven and wihtout any questions - PURE BRED ROTTWEILER


2. BOTH parents should be proven as having as few faults as possible. The only way to prove this is to show your dog and place in those shows.


3. YOU must be willing to interview and screen EACH AND EVERY APPLICANT. Then - should something go wrong you MUST be willing to take this dog back and find it another good home. Do you really have the resources to do this properly. Any breeder worth their salt willrequire a CONTRACT. Generally speaking, very few IF ANY of these pups from any given litter will be allowed to breed - it's in the contract.


4. YOU must be breeding for the RIGHT REASON. THE ONLY REASON IS TO IMPROVE the quality of this breed. That means that breeding must be done between dogs that have as few faults as possible and are temperament tested, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.


I know that you are saying you want to breed because of your love for dogs but ask yourself this question - is it really that or do I just want a bunch of cute teddy bear puppies for the status symbol of it all.


if you truly love dogs - you will adhere to the rules that QUALITY breeders adhere to. And if you want to learn more - and you should - attend a couple of AKC shows in your area, read everything you can get your hands on and surround yourself with people who support sound breeding pratices. It is the right thing to do.


I understand Donna's frustrations - those of us who champion for this breed are very firm with regard to breeding. And unsound breeding practices havebeen the major cause of untold amount of damage to many breeds.


If you need an example just take a really good look at what has happened to the AMerican Pit Bull Terrier. They are now being banned in countless areas and the truth be told - this is one of the most fantastic breeds that you could ever be lucky enough to own!


Now - I know this is long but take our advice. Forget about breeding your dog unless you have AKC or UKC papers from both parents. And also, both of those parents should have competed successfully in shows. Any bitch must be over 2 years old.


So take all of that energy of yours and take your very good dog and do something really special with her. Get her Therapy certificates, get her CGC, get her certified to do search and rescue - visit Hospice - visit nursing homes. Just go out and be A GREAT AMBASSADOR for this breed.


I am sure your dog is a GREAT pet - I have one just like her - please enjoy her for what she is and leave the breeding to the PROS.


Maybe Donna and I sound a bit harsh but it is our love for this breed that drives these very strong beliefs in the right way to help this breed succeed so that many generations beyond ours can enjoy them!


We hope you will make the right choice!
 

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Don't mean to sound harsh,but I don't like wasting my time.


There are people out there who realy want advice and then there are those who don't .If you don't then don't ask.


Breeding is something that should be taken very seriously,not just because your Vet says you should.Bloodlines should be looked into and make sure they match.


Dogs should be the best specimans possible,proven in the conformation ring and the obed ring.


It takes alot more work then just finding a dog down the street.


Donna
 

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I totally agree with you Donna. I get it all the time as a trainer - my clients say "please, please help with this dog - I REALLY need your advice." Then I give it and they ignore it. It's either too hard, takes too much of a commitment or they just plain DON'T LIKE what I said. It simply wasn't the "answer" they wanted to hear. I aggravates the beans right out of me!


Like you, I have very strong beliefs where breeding is concerned. Irresponsible breeding contributes to many things - we know the list. None of them are good.


In any case, the average dog owner simply has not been exposed to those issues. All they see are those cute little teddy bear puppies - they don't see the harsh reality of health issues andbehavioral problems that often result from poor breeding practices.


Being a trainer, I have learned that if the owner reamins "untrained" it doesn't really matter how many hours I putinto training for a certain behavior.


When the lines are drawn - it all comes back to educating dog owners in what "resposnible pet care" really means. It's an entire package - you meet thehealth, happiness andother requirements of your pet AND - you adhere to reponsible breeding practices.


All owners, unless they have a SHOW QUALITY dog of any breed - AND - here is the biggie - INTEND TO SHOW that dog should have their pet spayed or neutered.


We should all remember just how many animals are euthanized in this counrty every year. Let's not contribute to that problem.


Also, I have to wonder about this vet. It is almost unbelievable that a vet would encourage this type of breeding. Most would NOT under any circumstance.


I still say - educating dog owners is the key. It is responsible breeders such as yourself that have the capacity to make people really understand the ramifications of a poor decision.


Keep it up Donna. There are those who WILL listen and those are the ones we can make a difference with!
 

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I know there are those that will listen,and I will still keep spreaden the word.but it does get a little dishearting some times.I really want to help people,and will still continue to try.I might have last the battle here in this situation,but the war is not over yet.


Donna
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The way I read that is you think that CKC is for puppy Mills? I will have you know I have been to CKC events with Dallas. And you know what I seen? PURE BREED PUPS AND DOGS. I also think some where in all this I explained I would be getting with my breeder friend. ( who has championship dobbermans) to check the people out I did not know. Her dogs never go for less than $1500 a pup. You know I would in most cases agree to fix your pet. But thought it all I have done all her test except hips & she has her job. I think letting people know the facts before they breed is great but everythink I have read I already know. Thank for the hard time.


Shell
 

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I've went to the CKC web site and they only seem to offer performance events,and yes they are the registery for puppy millers .What Registery would let you Register a dog with no history?I am not the only one who thinks or knows this.Or labradoodles.


http://www.continentalkennelclub.com/default.aspx


I have even registerd with this group not to pretend that it is even any more purebred,but for the performance titles.


http://www.apdt.com/


What kind of test has she had?As she can not have her hips,elbows checked until she is two.If not she is not healthy.1500 a pup does not make her a good breeder,just because people ask such high prices does not make them good.and to help you breed and sell puppys when she knows you should not does not help our breed.But what does she care she has Dobermans.


DonnaEdited by: rutylr
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well there is where you got me. I know the vet ran alot of test do to the bill I got. He did tell me her heart,eyes & tyriod check out. I know her brucellosis test came back negitive.The stud I have lined up is AKC. The owner knows Dallas mom & dad. And just so you know too. You should not knock someone if you are unsure of there skills, or what they do for a living. My friend has people all over the U.S waitting for a pup. And just so you know she would not be backing me on breeding if I did nothave my i's dotedand cross my T's. And just so You know Dallas Does have CGCbehind her name. Just because I do not show her in a ring or have her jump a wall does not make her anyless of a Rottie. Now if there was a something that would disquillify(sp) her as a great standerd rottie. You bet she would not be breed. I know AKC Rottie who would be laughed out the ring for being to tall and their markings. And I would have had them fixed. Am I right? Well they breed. And I have asked them to have the dog fixed, and why they should not breed that dog. And they still do it. But they are 100% rottie. AKC papers and all. So paper don't mean alot to some people. It's there health. And Dallas's health is 1st, my vet bill shows it. I tell my vet to run ALL the test that AKC calls for and he did. All but the hip. And my vet did x-ray her hips and set them off to be looked at by the best. And from what they told him I will not have any problems with her hips. But they do want one more set of x-rays when she is 2.


I think In a way no matter what test I have done, no matter how many backgound checks I do. It would not matter to you. But my vet, the stud owner, and myself are 100% with the results. And As I stated before. The stud is AKC. And Yes he knows she is CKC.


I can't help if other people use CKC to do puppy mills. I do not suport people who do this kind of thing. There are people out there like me, who could not get the AKC papers, did the blood work to make sure their pup was 100% what ever.


Shell
 

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Again your Vet can not okay hips and Elbows.I have not heard a word about them as of yet.What is you dogs registered name?Just a question.


What test does the stud dog have done?his hips cert? His elbows cert?His eyes Cert?And was his sire and dam and theirs?If not there goes your healthy puppys.


Not nocking your friend,just saying if you are trying to impress me by saying she sales dogs for 1500 or that she sells all over the statesso what.I know of alot of breeders selling show quialty dogs that should not be breeding nor would I ever buy a dog from them what ever their breed is.I have a friend in Dobs and she would like to know who she is.What respectable breeder helps BYB produce puppys?Any dog can get a CGC.I know a dog that was involved in an attack on a small child that had a CGC.


Papers don't mean alot but they did to you as you had to have her registered with something to make your self feel better about her.No matter what test you do I will still say this is wrong,because she is a pet with no background.You don't have a clue what you are producing How do you know you are not producing health issues?You don't you are just intent on producing puppys(healthy or not) so you don't have your i's dotted nor your t' crossed.You have no clue what you are doing.You are not the only one I tell they should not breed.I tell everyone who has not thought about the breed before they breed and not just themselves.There is alot at stake when you breed.


That is my point,just because you can doesn't mean you should.Do you plan on selling these puppys on a spay/neuter contract or are you going to sell them to people like your self who will breed with out thought to the future of this breed.If people stoped breeding every dog they owned just because, May be we could run shelter and rescues out of business.


http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/intro.htm


DonnaEdited by: rutylr
 

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I also do not tell everyone they should not breed.I will help with pedigree's and help them find a dog that will complement theirs to better what they have.


Missy has a female(not from the best breeder),but she has a pedigree and a health history.I would gladly help her find a stud dog that would help her improve what she has.I would rather help thenhave people go and do it on their own and produce bad puppys.


But to jump into it blindly with no thought to what you are producing is wrong.


Donna
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I only got Dallas papered If she was to get out or stolen. Her name on paper is Dutchess Dallas Von Johnson. She will come to anyone that I call her. I asked the vet about the Cert on all you said. He said he did and the paper work was in her file when I got ready to get a copy for stud. And yes I have see all the paper work on the stub. All checks out. I am not new to the paper work and test. Heck I used to run the test. I stepped out of all that do to dumb owner who don't liston or care. She will only be having 1 litter. And if she miscarries this time, I am having her fixed.


Shell
 

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Again your Vet can not Certify any thing .It has to be mailed in,right after you have tests done,and people who know what they are looking at will either pass or fail the dog and you will be issued a Certificate with a number the starts out with RO-hips,RO-EL elbows,Your vet cannot do it.The stud has all these test Also?Every time you mention this vet he sounds like someone I wouldn't take my dogs to.A vet and a puppy broker all it one.


And having her spayed after sounds good and all,but what if it's too late?Knowing you killed her to make your self happy,can you live with that knowing her history It happens for a reason.


DonnaEdited by: rutylr
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
If my vet said they are cert, then I'm sure he sent off or did what nedded to be done. I have always let him handle what needs to be done. And I have NEVER lost a pet in his care. Why is it that because my vet thinks her having A (one) litter, so hard for you? My vet knows the type of owner that I am. All my other pets are fixed.


Shell
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
One more thing. Do you think the owner of the stud would risk his dog (bad pups)? Don't you think I know I have to take all this paper work with me when she goes?


Shell
 
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