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This has to be said!

6134 Views 25 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  barcurdan, 
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I have been enjoying my time as a member of this site.. untill recently... there is alot of good advice for people on here and everything has to be taken into account. i am sure i have mentioned in my previous posts that i am a proud owner of a 2 year old male Rotti. i love the breed and everything it is about... there have been a couple posts with replies that have made me wonder. I love my dog he is a member of my family he doesn't have papers or anykind of recogntion by any kennel clubs!!!! i want it to be in the open that it doesn't make him any less of a Rotti to me or any less than any papered dog, nor does it make any papereddog any better some people seem to think this.. there havebeen a couple of idividuals that have implied that because they have no papers they areworthless lesser beingsof theRottweiler breed i have to disagree, and they feel the need to saythat theyshouldbe done away with as the breed or at least not reproduce last i checked they wern't god.. well i have to say what makes there dog any better..then they have went on to say that there is only One breed of Rottweiler( not german or american ETC) so what makes having papers a special priviedge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i mean they are all Rotti's a Breed that everyone on here loves. When got chance i wasn't looking for a recognized orprestigious animal, i wanted a loving companion not one that was going to make me someone or money..what ever happened to just haveing a pet and being happy with what it is! and happy with who he or she is.... THey seem to think that puppy's aren'y around to make a dollar ( I AGREE TOTALLY and shouldn't be !!) but i am sure they are injoying the money and recognition that they are getting ... what makes it any different for them to do. as long as your educated about the breed that is number one


Yes i agree that not everyone should breed these animals and care and cautioun should be taken but wehther they have papers or regonition should not be one of them!!!!! My dog is Neutered but only for the fact thati didn't have time to have these concerns or wanted him toreakhaveck on thetown by "having fun" but i know that if i did have timeto do it properly and in a loving a caring manner with all precutions i may have hadleft him intact. and His puppy's would not have been anyless than a puppy with papers!!!!! we have said it on here before it is the owner that makes the dog. I just want to say that you are not any better than the next owner just because your dog is recognzed (yippy) or papered and this attitude is awful as long as your happy with your dog you don't need a kennel to tell you that do you?????


AS for the Man or lady that was at the vet and wanted to know about breeding her dog. as a human being and a loving rott owner i say do what youthink is best if your not looking for prestige like some people are(obviously) then go for it just find loving caring homes for them that is the number one issue they don't need to have papers to be a rotti or be loved and someone family member! Just do it in a caring way and properly ( meaning he doesn't need paper to tell him that he is a Rotti) I will continue to Love chance with or with out papers or ribbons or whatever the hell else someone tells me he need to be"proper Rotti"


Discriminationas wrecked humanity don't let is carry on to the animals!!!!
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I have been saying this from the begining,you do not need papers to tell you that you have a great pet.Pet is the key word.ALL pets should be spayed and neutered.


I don't believe that my dogs are any better then anyone elses.I do know the history of my dog and that my dogs come from a long line of healthy dogs.


http://pawvillage.com/pedigree/dynprofile.asp?ID=TYKQIOBYG7


This is Daphneys pedigree with health clearences on her and every Generation back.


When breeding you need to know what you are doing and what you have(not just a dog that looks like a Rottweiler).Just because you have a dog doesn't mean it should be bred.Heck some people shouldn't have kids.Rottweilers were bred for a reason not just because.Every dog has a standard that all breeder should be adhearing to.Someone long ago had a dream to produce the breed we love today,and now back yard breeders take it apon then selves to distroy the breed we have all come to love,Why because they can,not because they are striving to produce better dogs just puppys,again because they can.


I make no money on the breeding I have done in the past.I spend thousands a year on traveling to take my dogs to shows(not because I think they are better then anyone else,but because I injoy the showing,meeting new people and having fun with my dogs.Not counting all the training class a year that I go to.


I bred Daphney in August,I drove for 2 days straight to the stud dog who lives in Ohio(I live in WI)payed 800.00 for stud fee,waited 2 weeks and drove 2 days to get her back.It cost me over 200.00 in gass alone.And before the breeding I spent money to make sure my dog was healthy enough to breed,had her hips cert and her eyes,hips 175.00,eyes 25.00 plus sending in fee.


I almost lost her as she had a hard delivery,why did she have a hard delievery,because she had only one pup in side her.If I did not know what I was doing and helped her thru this she would not have made.I kept the pup(even tho I have alot of people waiting for Good quility puppys.I will show him but never breed him.After he is done showing towards his CH I will neuter him.Where is all the money I make?I give puppies to good pet owners out of every litter.I have never even come close to making any money on any litter I've bred.


Why do we tell people not to breed their pets,well I'm guessing you never did rescue.If you would you would know why only people looking out for the breed should be breeding.I did rescue for quite a few years,I had to stop,because I could not take putting down perfectly healthy dogs because BYB sell to anyone who wants a dog and can't handle it.


So to say we or I am holy they tho is wrong maybe I care more then you about this breed and what to cotinue to own it.It's BYB's selling to irrespencable people that are getting breed band.


Look at the whole picture.


Donna
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i do Beleive every Pet should be neutered but not becuase itjust doesn't have papers. i have not been specific with Rottie rescue but i have been a volunteer at the local Humaine Society for 3 years both as help and as a foster. I am just making a point that a dog with no papers ( no matter what the breed) is as good as any. I know first hand of this.(every animals deserves a chance)there are alot of great pets out there that don't have the presige you think a dog needs. it's great you knowwhere your dog came from and all that S#$T but what does it get you? is your dog any better off than even a mixed breed animal..NO!!! icare about animalsnot what an animal makes him owner look like to the public, i don't needrecognition to know i haveGreat animals.Pure breed dogs are all as great to me as mixed breeds


I know you enjoy shows and all that is great that you have an activitywith her Rotti but pleasedon'tmake others think that theres are any less than yours... we are all on here to learn nothave our animals beat down and have someone tell us they don't measure up to yours ( that is how yourmaking it sound)


People need to get out of the heads that papers make your dog something ( i know you Agree) your dog needs food water and love above all and to be happy in a goodfamily home that is all that matters.. Papers or kennels recognition don't provide good homes either.
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This has nothing to do with a dog being better or not with out papers.It has to do with breeding.Pets should not be bred.


My dogs(and again I say this)are not better they anyone elses,because they have papers.Every pet I sell(with papers)HAS to be spayed/neutered,why because they are Pets.


I don't think I ever beat down anyones pets.I keep telling everyone they should love their no matter what they are.Papers do not make them better,nor do they make better pets.I do not breed for Kennel recognition as no one who breeds and shows knows who I am.I breed to continue on my line,and I produce some really great pets that never make it into the ring.The only dogs I breed that are shown are the ones that I show all the rest are pets.(spayed/neutered.)


My whole point and here I say it again.Pets should be spayed /neutered ,papers or not they are just pets.


Donna
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4 Rottie, I will be breeding her 1 time only. And I have great home lined up. I plain to get Dallas fixed After that. I let my vet know this two. I have had her test done and just so everyone else who reads this knows ALL TEST HAVE COME BACK, she is in excellent health. And I agree with what you said, papers do not make or brake the dog. To me that would be the owner.


Shell
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Glad you decided i wish you the best of luck !!! don't let anyone tell you different... even on here. your dog does not need to be recognized by anything to have great pups!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Back the Neutering are we???..


rutylr, First i want to say Is your dog your pet... if you beleive every pet should be neutered why isn't yours what makes her "line" so much betterthan other's that is the point i am Trying to get across to you.. You say it is wrong "to breed you pets"but you continue to be a hypocrite and breed your dog why can't anyone else onhere with out having you contradict there decsion.. we are on here to ask for adviceand learn not to be shot down


i enjoy the information on this site alot but i don't need to be told how things should be run everyone as the right to share this wonerful breed if done correctly and obviously if we are on here we have knowledge to know what should be done or care enough to find out!!
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My dogs are pets after they are done showing.Then they are spayed/neutered.and live the life of a pet.


My line is'nt any better,I just know it is healthy.and breeding a dog with an unknown history is not doing anything for the breed (that is good).That type of breeding is just to produce puppys not to better the breed.


Ask for advice,but don't waste everyones time if you already know what you are going to do.This place is here to help.


In your first post you are so against BSL.Do you know how these people get their dogs?If you are so against this then you should be against people breeding there dogs with not thought to where the breed is going,and only about producing puppy.When there are so many out there dieing every day.Again because people are breeding their pets,because they can not because they should.Sounds funny to me that you would be against one thing and not the other.They call them flip flopers.Stick to what you believe in and don't change your mind when the wind blows.


DonnaEdited by: rutylr
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Well, well - this forum is really heating up. I can see why.


Having papers is not the only guide to use when deciding to breed a dog of any breed. And I agree, a papered puppy is no better than an unpapered puppy. A ribbonned dog is no better than one who has not been awarded points. My dog is no better than yours - yours is really no better than mine.


The bottom line to me is this - no one wants to contribute to the overpopulation of dogs in the world today. A breeding is done to continue a "line" of blood that has previously been successful. And the word successful can mean many different things. 99% of all breeders require that the puppies be spayed or neutered. That says it all.


Breeding is very difficult - very costly and very time consuming. There are the vet visits, the vitamins, the whelping box - this and that. I don't care how much money a puppy brings - it is never enough to cover the expenses involved.


I don't think that anyone should be put down for what they believe is right. You guys believe you are right because you want to breed your dog. I believe I am right because of what my goals are for MY dog andthis particular breed. Donna believes she is right because of her experience and her goals.


I don't agree with your decision but she is your dog. And just for the sake of it - consider that everything we have said about breeding is deeply rooted in experience and what we believein. Like it or not, it is the most respected of opinions among Rottweiler owners.


If you want to breed her - do it - and if you need help with anything at all just let me know. I would rather help you with sound advice than to argue about who is right and who is wrong. Let's try to remember we are all here because we love the breed.


We are all enitltled to our opinions and though we may not agree we should respect each other. I am sure we all have great dogs - some of those dogs have papers and some don't. Some will be bred and some won't.


In a perfect world - most of these dogs would not be bred. Not becuase they are bad dogs or substandard in any way, but because it is the right thing to do for this particular breed and the world we live in today.
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I think you just said it all in one big mouthful and I personally think that what you say is right but that's just me
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So ifALL rottie owner fixed there Rottie, do we know what happens then? NO ROTTIES


And if we let only "REAL BREEDER" breed rotties do you know what we get? A show dog who can't play ball.


I think the best thing is to INFORM people as to the tests, and see if they can look into the background of the parents of their pup. If some really wants to breed they will, regardless. Best to let them know what is expected had hope for the best. Let them know you need to be there for mom and pups. They may have to help her feed pups if she has to many. They need to havetheir vet e.r. # right there with them. She need a place to have thoses pups and it is very messy, and smell bad too. Do they know what to do if one gets stuck? Do they know different vet charge different prices to dock tail and declaw? Does the vet know where to dock tail? Would the vet come out to their house if need? Are they ready to keep and raise every pup she has if great homes can't be found?What food do you have her on?


I think you get my point here. No need to put people down or make them feel small if they want to breed. Walking them through it is best so they have a shot a health pups.





Shell
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I have in formed and asked about test yet no test have been certified.Why inform?


Pet people are breeding for the wrong reason.You are to breed to improve not to distroy.If you don't have a history you are not improving.Breeding pets only helps to over populate and the need for shelters/rescues.Sure some show breeders are bad,but people who are in the breed to improve it warn people about those people.Just as I warn people about buying from someone who is breeding for no reason.


I have written a booklet on how to buy a puppy.I hand these out at shows at no cost,I want people to get the best puppy they can and not just a big vet bill and heart ache.


You say teach.I say listen and learn.


donnaEdited by: rutylr
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Breeding a dog is a huge responsibility, and those who know what they are doing and go about it properly, have every right to. I agree that if everyone stopped breeding them , there would be no more Rotts. My Magnus has no papers and he was a shelter dog. Thay didn't even think he was a full Rottie. But I know better. He is all Rott, tail and all. And I love every inch of him Papers or not. He was neutered when i got him, for which I am grateful. Full Males can be so difficult ( not like fixed ones aren't) Everyone here loves Rotties, papered or not. Yes papers are important if you want to breed, but for those of us like myself and 4rotties who have no interest in it, papers are unimportant. I think we are all in love with our dogs and whether you have full blooded papered rotts, or scraggly little shelter mutts, they are all full of love and fun for us all. Don't let the paper issues cause any problems, noone here thinks their dog is any better than yours. All of our pets and companions are equally important, no matter theit bloodlines.
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I am a new pup mom
and I completely agree with the last post. My rottie is a german rott and I have no papers, doesnt make him less of a rott. He is about 1 month and 1/12 weeks old, totally new to this. Glad to be here with everyone and share our opinions!
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Everyone shares that thought.A pet is a pet with or with out papers just love them,but if you are going to breed a dog you need them.That is my whole point.


Rottweilers are Rottweilers there is only one kind of Rottweiler not German,american,duch ,or any other kind,just rottweilers.


Donna
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I feel that if your responsible enough and take care of your pets I don't see any harm with breeding your pet. Papers or Not. My rott is wonderful he is great tempered, wonderful with people and other animals. I would breed him in a heart beat if I could find someone else who is responsible enough. He is not neutered, and I may never neuter him.


Hercules has a wonderful pedigree with Champion German blood lines but to me that really means nothing because I love him as a pet and that is all. He is not a show dog and never will be one. He is carefree and loves to be with us 24/7.
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That kind of thinking is why we have rescues and shelters that is why thosands of dogs died every year.This is why dogs died in dog fights.How do you think people got these dogs? not from responsible breeders who have contract,do back ground checks.but BYB like this.


Neutering will help to insure he does not get testicular cancer.We are supose to ensure or animals stay healthy.





Donna
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dillydally said:
So ifALL rottie owner fixed there Rottie, do we know what happens then? NO ROTTIES


And if we let only "REAL BREEDER" breed rotties do you know what we get? A show dog who can't play ball.


I think the best thing is to INFORM people as to the tests, and see if they can look into the background of the parents of their pup. If some really wants to breed they will, regardless. Best to let them know what is expected had hope for the best. Let them know you need to be there for mom and pups. They may have to help her feed pups if she has to many. They need to havetheir vet e.r. # right there with them. She need a place to have thoses pups and it is very messy, and smell bad too. Do they know what to do if one gets stuck? Do they know different vet charge different prices to dock tail and declaw? Does the vet know where to dock tail? Would the vet come out to their house if need? Are they ready to keep and raise every pup she has if great homes can't be found?What food do you have her on?


I think you get my point here. No need to put people down or make them feel small if they want to breed. Walking them through it is best so they have a shot a health pups.





Shell
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nice post......dd
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This is what she says but this is not what she is doing.Her dog is a puppy no person looking out for their dogs best interest would breed a puppy.


If your dog is not registered how do you know the health history?You can't.So how can you be breeding healthy puppys? Your not.


It seems to come down to the money in cases like this.Pets should be spayed and neutered.Loved papers or no,but should not be bred.Breeding is to improve the breed.If you don't know what you have How can you improve it?


Donna
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When you breed you owe it to the breed to breed the best you can.How are people supose to enjoy the Rottweiler we all have come to love if they keep breedings dogs of unsure parentage and nohealth history.


A good breeder breeds to better their breed not to help distroy it.You should be breeding for Health,Structure and Temperment.


If you do not do the test then you are not breeding for health.If your dog is not shown and evatuated by people who know structure then you are not breeding for that.If you do not work your dog in some sort of performance events then you are not breeding for the proper temperment.


What does that leave?Greed,stupidity,ignorance, any of these and all of these.There are people out their that love this breed and what to see it contine to thrive and be what it is.And there are people out there who just don't really care about the breed and where it is going they just want puppys.


It's a never ending battle that I will continue to fight.Maybe after the breed is band people will start to look at the whole picture not just what they see in front of them$$$$$.


Donna
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